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> Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. Wow, are we insulting people like we're twelve now? Again, I have to ask. Why are you not writing a replacement

> Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. Wow, are we insulting people like we're twelve now? Again, I have to ask. Why are you not writing a replacement for systemd? Again, another person in this thread seems to think they know everything yet don't seem to have any code to show for it.

netsharc 7y ago
Please be advised, I've downvoted your comments asking "if you know better, where's your code?", because I think that line of argument is absurd and has no legitimacy. To use some analogy, imagine I, a non-cook, have been invited to a restaurant by friends. After the meal I say to the waiter "this food is way too salty!", and he replies, "Oh yeah, then go in the kitchen and replace our cook!". What, you think we all don't have dayjobs and can just devote our time to... 1) learn to code C/C++ 2) learn about the OS 3) architect, code and debug a replacement ? Please don't be an absolutist and think "everyone can contribute to open source!", in the real world, time is finite.
- Accacin 7y ago
  No, your analogy isn't correct though. You're broadcasting your opinion on an online message board, not just a waiter. Plus, you're paying for the food. It's nothing alike. The parent comment is basically implying that the cook has cooked the dish completely wrong and that he (a non-cook) could do a better job of cooking that dish. Plus, isn't this the great thing about open source? If someone doesn't like systemd, they can write they're own. Of course, not one does.. > What, you think we all don't have dayjobs and can just devote our time to... I'm only suggesting this to the people who comment online complaining how the most used implementation isn't up to their personal standards and that they know how it could be done better. It's easy to complain and bitch online, that's the problem. Everyone seems to know the solution but no one seems to do it. > Please be advised, I've downvoted your comments asking "if you know better, where's your code?" Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. I upvoted you because you downvoted me.
  - yesenadam 7y ago
    I think most people on here prefer–and I often see people asking for–an explanation of why they were downvoted. It seems those explanations usually do good. "Please don't comment about the voting on comments" refers to complaining about other people's downvotes.
    - Accacin 7y ago
      See your point, but depends on your interpretation. I don't care about downvotes personally, for me it's a sign that they can't form an argument against mine. I try not to get personal so normally I'm not downvoted for that at least, just being wrong heh.
  - netsharc 7y ago
    > The parent comment is basically implying that the cook has cooked the dish completely wrong and that he (a non-cook) could do a better job of cooking that dish. I may not know how to cook (insert complicated dish here) but I can tell if it's too salty. Users of systemd / whatever software this man wrote may not have the time to do all the stuff I mentioned, but they know using/configuring the system is a nightmare. > It's easy to complain and bitch online, that's the problem. Everyone seems to know the solution but no one seems to do it. I repeat, they might not know the solution, just that the software tastes bad to them. Some of these complainers might be able to come up with a better solution, if they had the 3 things I mentioned before, but sadly, apparently, no one actually does. Otherwise a replacement would already exist. Of course it's another thing to get distros to adapt it. Their lack of time/ability doesn't mean they're forbidden to say "this thing sucks!". IMO at least.
    - Accacin 7y ago
      Well I don't want to continue this argument too much, but I take your point on board.
big_chungus 7y ago
>> Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. > Wow, are we insulting people like we're twelve now? How is that insulting? It's pretty much true. It's not really nice, but it's not really mean either. > Why are you not writing a replacement for systemd? There are already replacements. I use them in several places, mostly openrc. I'm perfectly allowed to grumble that something's bad and pushed into most distros. Plus, I'm generally stuck using it at work. Next time you complain about, say, your car breaking down, I'll be sure to advise you to go build your own car.
- Accacin 7y ago
  > How is that insulting? It's pretty much true. It's not really nice, but it's not really mean either. That's the point. It's not insulting and it makes you sound like you're twelve. > Next time you complain about, say, your car breaking down, I'll be sure to advise you to go build your own car. No, again. I see you're struggling. When my car breaks down, I ring a mechanic or take it to the garage. I don't go to the mechanic claiming to know exactly why my car broke down and how the manufacturer should change the specification to make it so that it doesn't break again. If my car keeps breaking down, I know not to use that model of car and try something else. What you're doing is most likely using a piece of software, finding it doesn't suit your particular use case and then going online to insult the creator, and claim that you know how it should have been engineered. It's completely fine that you don't like systemd. The problem is that a majority of people prefer it and that's pretty obvious from the distributions picking it up. Stop and think for a while, imagine that's you who's created the software. Do you really think he's an evil genius trying to fuck up your system or is he just a hacker doing what he loves to do? You also say "They also didn't do a great job of modularity, and don't use dbus like they should (dbus isn't built to be used with an init system; use a socket already). Rather, they have every thing depending on another. Suddenly, everything must re-tool to work with systemd or stop working. It basically unilaterally declared itself the standard.", but don't really have anything to back it up. For example, Arch Linux reasons for picking up systemd: 0) it is hotplug capable 1) we can know the state of the system 2) it is modular 3) it allows dbus/udev to go back to doing the task they are meant to do 4) we can reduce the number of explicit ordering dependencies between daemons 5) we get a lot of security/sandboxing features for free 6) systemd service files can be written and distributed upstream 7) systemd is a cross-distro project 8) logind will finally deliver on what consolekit was supposed to do 9) systemd is fast https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530 Not sure why it declared itself as standard.

netsharc 7y ago

Please be advised, I've downvoted your comments asking "if you know better, where's your code?", because I think that line of argument is absurd and has no legitimacy. To use some analogy, imagine I, a non-cook, have been invited to a restaurant by friends. After the meal I say to the waiter "this food is way too salty!", and he replies, "Oh yeah, then go in the kitchen and replace our cook!". What, you think we all don't have dayjobs and can just devote our time to... 1) learn to code C/C++ 2) learn about the OS 3) architect, code and debug a replacement ? Please don't be an absolutist and think "everyone can contribute to open source!", in the real world, time is finite.

Accacin 7y ago
No, your analogy isn't correct though. You're broadcasting your opinion on an online message board, not just a waiter. Plus, you're paying for the food. It's nothing alike. The parent comment is basically implying that the cook has cooked the dish completely wrong and that he (a non-cook) could do a better job of cooking that dish. Plus, isn't this the great thing about open source? If someone doesn't like systemd, they can write they're own. Of course, not one does.. > What, you think we all don't have dayjobs and can just devote our time to... I'm only suggesting this to the people who comment online complaining how the most used implementation isn't up to their personal standards and that they know how it could be done better. It's easy to complain and bitch online, that's the problem. Everyone seems to know the solution but no one seems to do it. > Please be advised, I've downvoted your comments asking "if you know better, where's your code?" Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. I upvoted you because you downvoted me.
- yesenadam 7y ago
  I think most people on here prefer–and I often see people asking for–an explanation of why they were downvoted. It seems those explanations usually do good. "Please don't comment about the voting on comments" refers to complaining about other people's downvotes.
  - Accacin 7y ago
    See your point, but depends on your interpretation. I don't care about downvotes personally, for me it's a sign that they can't form an argument against mine. I try not to get personal so normally I'm not downvoted for that at least, just being wrong heh.
- netsharc 7y ago
  > The parent comment is basically implying that the cook has cooked the dish completely wrong and that he (a non-cook) could do a better job of cooking that dish. I may not know how to cook (insert complicated dish here) but I can tell if it's too salty. Users of systemd / whatever software this man wrote may not have the time to do all the stuff I mentioned, but they know using/configuring the system is a nightmare. > It's easy to complain and bitch online, that's the problem. Everyone seems to know the solution but no one seems to do it. I repeat, they might not know the solution, just that the software tastes bad to them. Some of these complainers might be able to come up with a better solution, if they had the 3 things I mentioned before, but sadly, apparently, no one actually does. Otherwise a replacement would already exist. Of course it's another thing to get distros to adapt it. Their lack of time/ability doesn't mean they're forbidden to say "this thing sucks!". IMO at least.
  - Accacin 7y ago
    Well I don't want to continue this argument too much, but I take your point on board.

big_chungus 7y ago

>> Also, he thinks he's smarter than every one. > Wow, are we insulting people like we're twelve now? How is that insulting? It's pretty much true. It's not really nice, but it's not really mean either. > Why are you not writing a replacement for systemd? There are already replacements. I use them in several places, mostly openrc. I'm perfectly allowed to grumble that something's bad and pushed into most distros. Plus, I'm generally stuck using it at work. Next time you complain about, say, your car breaking down, I'll be sure to advise you to go build your own car.

Accacin 7y ago
> How is that insulting? It's pretty much true. It's not really nice, but it's not really mean either. That's the point. It's not insulting and it makes you sound like you're twelve. > Next time you complain about, say, your car breaking down, I'll be sure to advise you to go build your own car. No, again. I see you're struggling. When my car breaks down, I ring a mechanic or take it to the garage. I don't go to the mechanic claiming to know exactly why my car broke down and how the manufacturer should change the specification to make it so that it doesn't break again. If my car keeps breaking down, I know not to use that model of car and try something else. What you're doing is most likely using a piece of software, finding it doesn't suit your particular use case and then going online to insult the creator, and claim that you know how it should have been engineered. It's completely fine that you don't like systemd. The problem is that a majority of people prefer it and that's pretty obvious from the distributions picking it up. Stop and think for a while, imagine that's you who's created the software. Do you really think he's an evil genius trying to fuck up your system or is he just a hacker doing what he loves to do? You also say "They also didn't do a great job of modularity, and don't use dbus like they should (dbus isn't built to be used with an init system; use a socket already). Rather, they have every thing depending on another. Suddenly, everything must re-tool to work with systemd or stop working. It basically unilaterally declared itself the standard.", but don't really have anything to back it up. For example, Arch Linux reasons for picking up systemd: 0) it is hotplug capable 1) we can know the state of the system 2) it is modular 3) it allows dbus/udev to go back to doing the task they are meant to do 4) we can reduce the number of explicit ordering dependencies between daemons 5) we get a lot of security/sandboxing features for free 6) systemd service files can be written and distributed upstream 7) systemd is a cross-distro project 8) logind will finally deliver on what consolekit was supposed to do 9) systemd is fast https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530 Not sure why it declared itself as standard.