4 ms·

Agree. To pretend that XMPP is some sort of success is crazy. After 12 years, it's hardly used compared to other protocols. The protocol is amongst the worst i

by axod 16y ago

Agree. To pretend that XMPP is some sort of success is crazy. After 12 years, it's hardly used compared to other protocols. The protocol is amongst the worst imaginable. Over engineered crap.

johnny22 16y ago
except for gmail/gtalk and facebook and gmx.de and more. really though, there are more users than you expect.
- axod 16y ago
  users != volume of communication though Do all gmail users use gtalk? Do they use it as their primary IM? I'd expect not.
BarkMore 16y ago
XMPP does have a lot of use (Google Talk, Facebook chat, Chrome browser sync, ...) and is the most successful non-proprietary instant messaging protocol. I wonder what the state of the world would be like today if XMPP had been more approachable for developers. Would we still have instant messaging silos like MSN Messenger and AIM?
- axod 16y ago
  In what way is IRC for example proprietary? Yes, to a certain extent GTalk and facebook chat have taken a little market share from other IM clients (Not sure how much, maybe 10%?). But XMPP is nowhere when it comes to group chat.
  - BarkMore 16y ago
    IRC is not proprietary and I did not say that it is. I think it's great that you are using IRC in your project. Overall, there are many more active users of XMPP than there are users of IRC. When I say active users, I mean users who send and receive messages. I am not including users who only have the chat widget open on Gmail.
    - axod 16y ago
      > "Overall, there are many more users of XMPP than there are users of IRC." I'm skeptical. Post some figures if you have them, especially on volume of chat. Idle users mean nothing.
      - BarkMore 16y ago
        Earlier in this thread you estimate that GTalk and Facebook have 10% of the instant messaging market. Does IRC have more users than 10% of the instant messaging market?
  - senko 16y ago
    Apples and oranges. IRC is in general used for group-chat with topic channels, while other IM protocols (such as XMPP, ICQ, Skype, MSN, AIM, ...) are primarily 1:1 chats with friend/buddy lists. That said, XMPP MUC (multi-user chat) is terrible, overengineered and less usable than IRC is. (Disclaimer: I hacked on bits and pieces of XMPP client in Telepathy).
zppx 16y ago
Chrome/Chromium uses XMPP to synchronize between browsers: https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/developers/design-documents/sync https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/developers/desig... [ricardo@Brynhildr ~]% /sbin/ss -p | grep chromium ESTAB 0 0 192.168.66.67:50225 74.125.45.125:xmpp-client users:(("chromium-browse",2766,155)) CLOSE-WAIT 1 0 192.168.66.67:48406 174.143.235.145:www users:(("chromium-browse",2766,162)) ESTAB 0 0 192.168.66.67:34108 74.125.229.55:https users:(("chromium-browse",2766,148)) [ricardo@Brynhildr ~]% host 74.125.45.12 125.45.125.74.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer yx-in-f125.1e100.net.

by axod 16y ago

Agree. To pretend that XMPP is some sort of success is crazy. After 12 years, it's hardly used compared to other protocols. The protocol is amongst the worst imaginable. Over engineered crap.

johnny22 16y ago

except for gmail/gtalk and facebook and gmx.de and more. really though, there are more users than you expect.

axod 16y ago
users != volume of communication though Do all gmail users use gtalk? Do they use it as their primary IM? I'd expect not.

BarkMore 16y ago

XMPP does have a lot of use (Google Talk, Facebook chat, Chrome browser sync, ...) and is the most successful non-proprietary instant messaging protocol. I wonder what the state of the world would be like today if XMPP had been more approachable for developers. Would we still have instant messaging silos like MSN Messenger and AIM?

axod 16y ago
In what way is IRC for example proprietary? Yes, to a certain extent GTalk and facebook chat have taken a little market share from other IM clients (Not sure how much, maybe 10%?). But XMPP is nowhere when it comes to group chat.
- BarkMore 16y ago
  IRC is not proprietary and I did not say that it is. I think it's great that you are using IRC in your project. Overall, there are many more active users of XMPP than there are users of IRC. When I say active users, I mean users who send and receive messages. I am not including users who only have the chat widget open on Gmail.
  - axod 16y ago
    > "Overall, there are many more users of XMPP than there are users of IRC." I'm skeptical. Post some figures if you have them, especially on volume of chat. Idle users mean nothing.
    - BarkMore 16y ago
      Earlier in this thread you estimate that GTalk and Facebook have 10% of the instant messaging market. Does IRC have more users than 10% of the instant messaging market?
- senko 16y ago
  Apples and oranges. IRC is in general used for group-chat with topic channels, while other IM protocols (such as XMPP, ICQ, Skype, MSN, AIM, ...) are primarily 1:1 chats with friend/buddy lists. That said, XMPP MUC (multi-user chat) is terrible, overengineered and less usable than IRC is. (Disclaimer: I hacked on bits and pieces of XMPP client in Telepathy).

zppx 16y ago

Chrome/Chromium uses XMPP to synchronize between browsers: https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/developers/design-documents/sync https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/developers/desig... [ricardo@Brynhildr ~]% /sbin/ss -p | grep chromium ESTAB 0 0 192.168.66.67:50225 74.125.45.125:xmpp-client users:(("chromium-browse",2766,155)) CLOSE-WAIT 1 0 192.168.66.67:48406 174.143.235.145:www users:(("chromium-browse",2766,162)) ESTAB 0 0 192.168.66.67:34108 74.125.229.55:https users:(("chromium-browse",2766,148)) [ricardo@Brynhildr ~]% host 74.125.45.12 125.45.125.74.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer yx-in-f125.1e100.net.