5 ms·

It's misleading to just say "because of the green text" it's so much more than that. If you have an active iMessage chat and users are using iMessage features,

by iamwpj 7y ago

It's misleading to just say "because of the green text" it's so much more than that. If you have an active iMessage chat and users are using iMessage features, it's a weird experience for the non-iMessage folks. It seemed like a real victory to have emojis in the UTF format, but of course now Apple turns on the big FU and finds other ways to chide non-iMessage users. Don't blame the kids.

damnyou 7y ago
The kids could just be inclusive and switch to Telegram or WhatsApp or even Messenger. But the kids want to discriminate — humans, particularly Americans, thrive on excluding other people. the kids are just imitating the patterns they pick up from adults.
- piker 7y ago
  > But the kids want to discriminate Nah it's just easier to have it baked-in as native functionality.
  - damnyou 7y ago
    Why does approximately no one outside the US use iMessage then? Yes, it's easier if you have $750 to spend and are willing to cede control to a trillion dollar megacorporation. It's impossible if you're already on a different platform. Sometimes being inclusive means doing some work, going out of your way a little. Having to download another app is not a huge burden. The fact that kids aren't doing it is an indictment of American culture first, Apple second, adults third, and finally the kids themselves.
- mdszy 7y ago
  yeah fuck americans am i right totally has nothing to do with the fact that it's a built in app where you don't have to do anything extra to set it up no-sir-ee it's the americans who are bad!
  - tpush 7y ago
    Effectively no human with a smartphone outside the US finds having to install an app to communicate with other people in a cross platform way a burden enough to stay with iMessage. Either Americans are uniquely lazy when it comes to installing apps on their phone, or this argument doesn't hold any water.
    - piker 7y ago
      A false dichotomy. One third option: there are network effects at play in America that aren't at play in Europe. Consider the relative market shares of the iPhone. US: ~58%, e.g., Spain: 25%. [1] Thus, when one boots an iPhone in the US, roughly 60% of one's friends already have this functionality. And that market share likely skews towards self-selecting groups such as teenagers. Also note that sending an SMS doesn't have as significant of a historical drawback in the US as it does in Europe. There may be some limitations, but, again, given the market share, it's unlikely one is going to reach one's SMS limit texting grandma. Thus, because US people can be more accommodating in terms of messaging with other phones without a third-party app, it's a perceptively useless install in America. Pretty much apps like WhatsApp are only used by US people with Android devices for communicating outside of the US. Otherwise, it's unlikely a US person needs to do anything other than send an SMS, and, hence, the green bubble. [1] https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share
    - mdszy 7y ago
      or maybe, since it's already built in and works just fine for them, they use it most people don't give enough of a shit to install another app to chat with people when what they have is just fine friendly reminder that most people don't give a shit about tech in general and just want to use things that work you can calm your hate-boner for america whenever you want
- asclepi 7y ago
  That's not how it works. These kids didn't create the stigma for the green bubble. Popular culture did, big-money TV, movie and music productions did, and teens are the most susceptible. Try finding a recent US-produced music video or hit movie/TV series that shows a green bubble (or Android for that matter, as it still has a higher market share).
  - damnyou 7y ago
    Yes, as I said, the kids are just picking up patterns from adults. Ultimately this is a larger societal problem of exclusion. America has taken it to its extreme, with racial segregation, redlining and the prison industrial complex. This iMessage nonsense is just a small and relatively benign symptom of the fundamental problem with America. As a left-libertarian who believes in inclusion, I'm sure not going to encourage this with my own kids.
    - Terretta 7y ago
      Plus, by ensuring your kids use SMS instead of iMessage, you can be assured of your own ‘inclusion’ in their text chat logs through the cell carrier’s parental log.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        Non-imessage doesn't mean SMS. There's lots of e2e solutions that work cross-platform.
    - axaxs 7y ago
      You can't seriously be comparing iMessage usage to racial segregation. I refuse to believe this is a real comment.
      - damnyou 7y ago
        I very specifically said that iMessage is a small example of a general pattern of exclusion. (But yeah, people of color are less likely to use iPhones. I thought this was well known.)
NobodyNada 7y ago
It's not just a weird experience for "the non-iMessage folks," it's a weird experience for everyone just because MMS is missing so many features in comparison to iMessage. Last I checked, it wasn't even possible to add or remove someone from an MMS group without creating a new group from scratch. Additionally, MMS is unreliable in my experience -- oftentimes, messages are delayed by upwards of 15 minutes, and it doesn't work at all if I'm somewhere with less-than-perfect cell coverage (including my home and work).
d-sc 7y ago
Emojis are a Japanese thing. Apple didn’t enable them at first in the States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji

by iamwpj 7y ago

damnyou 7y ago

The kids could just be inclusive and switch to Telegram or WhatsApp or even Messenger. But the kids want to discriminate — humans, particularly Americans, thrive on excluding other people. the kids are just imitating the patterns they pick up from adults.

piker 7y ago
> But the kids want to discriminate Nah it's just easier to have it baked-in as native functionality.
- damnyou 7y ago
  Why does approximately no one outside the US use iMessage then? Yes, it's easier if you have $750 to spend and are willing to cede control to a trillion dollar megacorporation. It's impossible if you're already on a different platform. Sometimes being inclusive means doing some work, going out of your way a little. Having to download another app is not a huge burden. The fact that kids aren't doing it is an indictment of American culture first, Apple second, adults third, and finally the kids themselves.
mdszy 7y ago
yeah fuck americans am i right totally has nothing to do with the fact that it's a built in app where you don't have to do anything extra to set it up no-sir-ee it's the americans who are bad!
- tpush 7y ago
  Effectively no human with a smartphone outside the US finds having to install an app to communicate with other people in a cross platform way a burden enough to stay with iMessage. Either Americans are uniquely lazy when it comes to installing apps on their phone, or this argument doesn't hold any water.
  - piker 7y ago
    A false dichotomy. One third option: there are network effects at play in America that aren't at play in Europe. Consider the relative market shares of the iPhone. US: ~58%, e.g., Spain: 25%. [1] Thus, when one boots an iPhone in the US, roughly 60% of one's friends already have this functionality. And that market share likely skews towards self-selecting groups such as teenagers. Also note that sending an SMS doesn't have as significant of a historical drawback in the US as it does in Europe. There may be some limitations, but, again, given the market share, it's unlikely one is going to reach one's SMS limit texting grandma. Thus, because US people can be more accommodating in terms of messaging with other phones without a third-party app, it's a perceptively useless install in America. Pretty much apps like WhatsApp are only used by US people with Android devices for communicating outside of the US. Otherwise, it's unlikely a US person needs to do anything other than send an SMS, and, hence, the green bubble. [1] https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share
  - mdszy 7y ago
    or maybe, since it's already built in and works just fine for them, they use it most people don't give enough of a shit to install another app to chat with people when what they have is just fine friendly reminder that most people don't give a shit about tech in general and just want to use things that work you can calm your hate-boner for america whenever you want
asclepi 7y ago
That's not how it works. These kids didn't create the stigma for the green bubble. Popular culture did, big-money TV, movie and music productions did, and teens are the most susceptible. Try finding a recent US-produced music video or hit movie/TV series that shows a green bubble (or Android for that matter, as it still has a higher market share).
- damnyou 7y ago
  Yes, as I said, the kids are just picking up patterns from adults. Ultimately this is a larger societal problem of exclusion. America has taken it to its extreme, with racial segregation, redlining and the prison industrial complex. This iMessage nonsense is just a small and relatively benign symptom of the fundamental problem with America. As a left-libertarian who believes in inclusion, I'm sure not going to encourage this with my own kids.
  - Terretta 7y ago
    Plus, by ensuring your kids use SMS instead of iMessage, you can be assured of your own ‘inclusion’ in their text chat logs through the cell carrier’s parental log.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      Non-imessage doesn't mean SMS. There's lots of e2e solutions that work cross-platform.
  - axaxs 7y ago
    You can't seriously be comparing iMessage usage to racial segregation. I refuse to believe this is a real comment.
    - damnyou 7y ago
      I very specifically said that iMessage is a small example of a general pattern of exclusion. (But yeah, people of color are less likely to use iPhones. I thought this was well known.)

NobodyNada 7y ago

It's not just a weird experience for "the non-iMessage folks," it's a weird experience for everyone just because MMS is missing so many features in comparison to iMessage. Last I checked, it wasn't even possible to add or remove someone from an MMS group without creating a new group from scratch. Additionally, MMS is unreliable in my experience -- oftentimes, messages are delayed by upwards of 15 minutes, and it doesn't work at all if I'm somewhere with less-than-perfect cell coverage (including my home and work).

d-sc 7y ago

Emojis are a Japanese thing. Apple didn’t enable them at first in the States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji