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The really irritating thing about the 'solve it all at once' argument is that electric cars, in a very real way, are the keystone that lets the entire arch supp

The really irritating thing about the 'solve it all at once' argument is that electric cars, in a very real way, are the keystone that lets the entire arch support itself. Renewable energy sources are already the cheapest ways of generating electricity at certain times, the trouble is that those aren't always when the electricity is needed. Energy storage makes investment in renewables much more profitable. The problem is, energy storage is itself expensive, much too expensive to invest in for most situations. By attaching wheels and motors, electric cars make people pay more for batteries than they ever would otherwise be willing to spend on energy storage.

JKCalhoun 7y ago
The author talks about a lot more than the cost of energy to power the car. For one, there is the cost in energy of building and maintaining the roads.
- Faark 7y ago
  The author is kinda talking about civilization. And no, expecting humans to give up much on that front won't save the planet. We have to improve on a lot of fronts and the attention argument is one of the better ones... finding better ways to achieve the same is worthy pursuit. Sailing across the ocean to save on emissions worthy action for some young female climate activist, but certainly not something many of us would be willing to do.
Forge36 7y ago
The interesting thing about electric cars is that many of them sorry scheduled charging (my charging station also supports remote configuration of when I can charge). If my electric provider was willing (and able) to control when I could charge my car, they could use the the batteries to level out peaks in production to a degree. Off peak charging already exists today, however there aren't enough electric cars to make utilities heavily incentivise of peak charging solutions (it would only make sense for me to do so if my car was fully electric and not a hybrid due to initial installation costs)
- bdamm 7y ago
  Much easier would be for the utility to transmit the current price of power and have the car or charger charge the car when the price is below a certain threshold. The problem is that the best time to charge a car is immediately after it has been used, so it is ready to go the next time. Who wants a half dead car sitting around?
  - jdofaz 7y ago
    Some cars have a lot of capacity, so in some cases that is like saying who wants a car with only half a tank of gas?
    - saghm 7y ago
      Unfortunately, until there's more infrastructure supporting electric cars, it's much easier to refill your car with gas if it runs low while you're out than recharge it.
      - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        The dominant share of vehicle miles are commuting to work. If you work 9-5 and there is a charging port at work, you plug into it when you get there and you're charging during daylight hours. Meanwhile the average commute is 16 miles each way against cars that now have a ~300 mile range, which is plenty of slack for the odd evening use while still not needing to charge outside of work on anything but rare occasions.
        Forge36 7y ago
        I wish I had a charging station at work. My commute is short enough I don't need it fortunately
        WorldMaker 7y ago
        In the 300 mile range you start to get near the point where the average (mean and median, maybe not mode) commuter can charge once a week on an average work week at a fast charger at the local grocery store for merely an hour or two and still not worry about range. Work charging and home charging are nice to have slow and steady options that make EVs easier than gas, but it's about to the point where if you treat it like "gas" with a once a week fill-up that is increasingly an option if you relax your worries about "range" to the point that gas users are currently relaxed about in keeping their tanks full. (Range anxiety for ICE will eventually make a huge comeback. Electricity is everywhere, imagine driving a car where you couldn't just plug in anywhere the electric grid is and had to go to "stations" of a scarce mostly single-purpose resource for power. Haha.)
YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
I think you and other commenters are responding to the "solve it all at once argument" without it being put forward by the article. The article does not claim that electric cards do not reduce emissions sufficiently to solve the problem of climate change all at once. It claims that electric cars increase emissions and that increasing emissions exacerbates the problem of climate change. It's not saying that electric cars are only a partial solution. It's saying that they are part of the problem.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I read the article and felt it was kinda thin and conclusory. I take a bit of issue at his swipe 'if you can afford them'. Since the price is falling fast enough that electric cars should be actually cheaper than gasoline ones within a few years. Which means we might end up with more electric cars than we would gasoline ones. So yeah some of the negative externalies are fixed, CO2 emissions and air pollution. But others are not, traffic fatalities and injuries, traffic congestion, industrial pollution, resource depletion. And low prices may mean more of the latter not less.

JKCalhoun 7y ago

The author talks about a lot more than the cost of energy to power the car. For one, there is the cost in energy of building and maintaining the roads.

Faark 7y ago
The author is kinda talking about civilization. And no, expecting humans to give up much on that front won't save the planet. We have to improve on a lot of fronts and the attention argument is one of the better ones... finding better ways to achieve the same is worthy pursuit. Sailing across the ocean to save on emissions worthy action for some young female climate activist, but certainly not something many of us would be willing to do.

Forge36 7y ago

The interesting thing about electric cars is that many of them sorry scheduled charging (my charging station also supports remote configuration of when I can charge). If my electric provider was willing (and able) to control when I could charge my car, they could use the the batteries to level out peaks in production to a degree. Off peak charging already exists today, however there aren't enough electric cars to make utilities heavily incentivise of peak charging solutions (it would only make sense for me to do so if my car was fully electric and not a hybrid due to initial installation costs)

bdamm 7y ago
Much easier would be for the utility to transmit the current price of power and have the car or charger charge the car when the price is below a certain threshold. The problem is that the best time to charge a car is immediately after it has been used, so it is ready to go the next time. Who wants a half dead car sitting around?
- jdofaz 7y ago
  Some cars have a lot of capacity, so in some cases that is like saying who wants a car with only half a tank of gas?
  - saghm 7y ago
    Unfortunately, until there's more infrastructure supporting electric cars, it's much easier to refill your car with gas if it runs low while you're out than recharge it.
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      The dominant share of vehicle miles are commuting to work. If you work 9-5 and there is a charging port at work, you plug into it when you get there and you're charging during daylight hours. Meanwhile the average commute is 16 miles each way against cars that now have a ~300 mile range, which is plenty of slack for the odd evening use while still not needing to charge outside of work on anything but rare occasions.
      - Forge36 7y ago
        I wish I had a charging station at work. My commute is short enough I don't need it fortunately
      - WorldMaker 7y ago
        In the 300 mile range you start to get near the point where the average (mean and median, maybe not mode) commuter can charge once a week on an average work week at a fast charger at the local grocery store for merely an hour or two and still not worry about range. Work charging and home charging are nice to have slow and steady options that make EVs easier than gas, but it's about to the point where if you treat it like "gas" with a once a week fill-up that is increasingly an option if you relax your worries about "range" to the point that gas users are currently relaxed about in keeping their tanks full. (Range anxiety for ICE will eventually make a huge comeback. Electricity is everywhere, imagine driving a car where you couldn't just plug in anywhere the electric grid is and had to go to "stations" of a scarce mostly single-purpose resource for power. Haha.)

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago

I think you and other commenters are responding to the "solve it all at once argument" without it being put forward by the article. The article does not claim that electric cards do not reduce emissions sufficiently to solve the problem of climate change all at once. It claims that electric cars increase emissions and that increasing emissions exacerbates the problem of climate change. It's not saying that electric cars are only a partial solution. It's saying that they are part of the problem.

Gibbon1 7y ago
I read the article and felt it was kinda thin and conclusory. I take a bit of issue at his swipe 'if you can afford them'. Since the price is falling fast enough that electric cars should be actually cheaper than gasoline ones within a few years. Which means we might end up with more electric cars than we would gasoline ones. So yeah some of the negative externalies are fixed, CO2 emissions and air pollution. But others are not, traffic fatalities and injuries, traffic congestion, industrial pollution, resource depletion. And low prices may mean more of the latter not less.