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I've heard that calling the Suicide Prevention Hotline can cause some pretty terrible unintended results (like cops showing up at your home and being placed in

I've heard that calling the Suicide Prevention Hotline can cause some pretty terrible unintended results (like cops showing up at your home and being placed in a mandatory medical hold) if called. Especially if one is not actually contemplating suicide but rather needs to talk. Does anyone have anything that backs this up?

altcognito 7y ago
Without evidence, this seems like a pretty irresponsible thing to suggest.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  "Will the Police Get Called If I'm Suicidal and Call a Suicide Hotline? This is a tricky question and the answer is neither "yes" nor "no." In the vast majority of cases, no police (or other authority) involvement is required and in the cases where emergency help is needed, suicide hotline staff will make every attempt to gain permission to send them. The goal of a suicide hotline is to help you with your personal crisis and no one-size-fits-all solution is possible. That being said, if you are actively suicidal and threatening to imminently hurt yourself, it is possible that emergency personnel may be called without your permission. While no one likes that scenario, it truly is the best, lifesaving thing an operator can do in a small number of cases." From: https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/suicide-hotline-what-happens-when-you-call https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/suicide-hotline-what-ha...
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Without evidence, any comment you make is uninformed, so maybe spend a few seconds with your favorite search engine before commenting. There are numerous reports of police showing up to suicide calls and shooting someone.[1][2][3][4][5] There's certainly a discussion to be had here about whether the shootings are self defense, but Taylor_OD's speculation is certainly not "without evidence". [1] https://www.blacknews.com/news/matthew-tucker-fatally-shot-police-responding-911-call-suicide-crisis-intervention-riverside-county/ https://www.blacknews.com/news/matthew-tucker-fatally-shot-p... [2] https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/12/sheriffs-deputy-fatally-shoots-armed-man-in-lake-elmo-after-responding-to-suicide-call/ https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/12/sheriffs-deputy-fatall... [3] https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/police-investigate-deputy-involved-shooting-in-lowell-after-suicide-call/ https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/police-investigate-dep... [4] https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley/2017/07/26/avondale-police-fatally-shoot-man-during-suicide-call/512796001/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley/... [5] https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-officer-involved-shooting-reported-cobb/x2gNlH1YuTCimQXkEAeEeO/ https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-officer-involve...
  - ars 7y ago
    Did you actually bother reading your articles? The person was shot after attacking the cops. You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      > The person was shot after attacking the cops. The person? There's five different articles with five different people. > You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun. Did you actually bother reading my post? I brought up the possibility that the shootings were self-defense--nowhere did I blame the cops.
pizza 7y ago
Somebody once called the suicide hotline at my dorm and the cops showed up. This lead to everyone in the dorm knowing she called the hotline, probably not the outcome she intended at all.
- ComputerGuru 7y ago
  Better than the alternative.
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    You know the reputation that US cops have earned themselves for violence? It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person. Maybe I have low expectations but stopping doing something because they're killing too many people unnecessarily seems like a big and uncommon step in the right direction for most law enforcement agencies. Usually they just deny, deny, deny.
    - cauthon 7y ago
      Have they tried not killing people?
      - inlined 7y ago
        “Death by cop” is a form of suicide. Some will try to create a situation where the cop has no choice but to kill or be killed.
        HarryHirsch 7y ago
nspl_anon 7y ago
So, I volunteer for one of the centers that answers calls to the National Suicide Prevention Line (NSPL). The training that we get involves risk assessing the caller by asking them questions. I won't go into details, but it's very rare that we would call emergency services without the caller's consent, and it would require the caller to tell us that they're in imminent risk of taking their life, and also that they aren't willing to work with us on finding a means of staying safe. The training that we get puts a lot of emphasis on protecting the dignity and autonomy and privacy of the caller. There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc.
- altendo 7y ago
  >There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc. I would definitely argue that this is the case. Like you, I also volunteer for one of the NSPL crisis centers, and we don't generally call emergency services unless it's absolutely necessary, but there are definitely stories out there where they were called when (in my personal opinion as a volunteer) it was not required. I seem to remember a story about a veteran getting an unwelcomed visit from law enforcement simply because they owned guns and had suicidal thoughts with no intent to harm themselves. If I can find the story again I will link it.
notabee 7y ago
Some cities have dedicated mental health crisis units that are trained to deal with such situations, and some cities do not. In most of these cases, emergency services are only called if the situation escalates out of the control of the person on the phone or therapist. E.g.: Situation 1: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "No, I just can't stop thinking about it and I don't see any other way out." Therapist/volunteer: Gives resources, talks "Do you think you will be safe until you can make it to counseling/crisis center/other help?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes." no emergency services are called Situation 2: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have this bottle of pills/knife/rope and I'm doing it tonight." Therapist/volunteer: tries to talk them out of it, and get positive affirmation that they will be safe, but fails emergency services are called Situation 3: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have a gun and I'm going to kill someone else too" cops are called immediately Those are extremely contrived examples and I'm not a therapist/volunteer myself (I just know a few), but that's generally how it goes. Emergency services are called only when the caller has a concrete plan, the means, and refuses alternatives or represents a danger to others. In some places with poor services (read: places that probably need them the most, unfortunately) this just winds up being poorly trained cops and people get shot sometimes because the cop "felt threatened". Bear this in mind in how you communicate such an emergency, if you ever face it with a loved one. Know your resources.
jdietrich 7y ago
There's a more fundamental issue - a mental health crisis is a medical emergency, not a crime. Police officers are rarely trained in mental health first aid and are not appropriate first responders. The default should be to dispatch an ambulance, with police support if specifically required.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
zenexer 7y ago
If things go south, in the US, yes, you can be sectioned. That probably shouldn't be seen as a negative, though. You'd typically be taken to an ER where a qualified medical professional would talk to you and decide whether you're likely to need assistance from a hospital. If you are, you're sectioned, which means you're placed under observation for three business days. During that time, they would typically provide a wealth of medical and mental services to you; full check-ups, access to therapists, etc. You're also given free access to a lawyer, if you so choose. If, after three days, they determine that you're not a danger to yourself or anyone else, out the door you go. If they determine that you're in harm's way, they talk to you and make recommendations. You don't have to agree to any of them. Typically they involve plans for moving forward, like making arrangements to see appropriate medical professionals on a regular basis, finding housing (if you're homeless), enrolling in rehab... whatever is relevant to your case. If they decide you need to stay, but you say you want to leave, they can either take the matter to court, or they can let you walk out the door. I've only ever talked to one person who landed in that situation; it doesn't seem to happen to most people who get sectioned. Obviously, some areas of the US have worse medical and mental care than others. If you're in a part of the US that's lacking in that regard, it could be more like a jail sentence than assistance.
- satokema_work 7y ago
  Remember that in the end they will send you a bill for this entire circus, so unless it's an acute emergency you do not actually want any of this.
  - zenexer 7y ago
    That depends very much on the circumstances. With decent insurance, they'll pay for almost all of it. Depending on your location, the state, federal government, or hospital may be required to foot the bill. If the alternative is being dead, well... but yes, you don't want it unless it's a serious emergency. Chances are a welfare check isn't going to result in sectioning anyway, though.

altcognito 7y ago

Without evidence, this seems like a pretty irresponsible thing to suggest.

big_chungus 7y ago
"Will the Police Get Called If I'm Suicidal and Call a Suicide Hotline? This is a tricky question and the answer is neither "yes" nor "no." In the vast majority of cases, no police (or other authority) involvement is required and in the cases where emergency help is needed, suicide hotline staff will make every attempt to gain permission to send them. The goal of a suicide hotline is to help you with your personal crisis and no one-size-fits-all solution is possible. That being said, if you are actively suicidal and threatening to imminently hurt yourself, it is possible that emergency personnel may be called without your permission. While no one likes that scenario, it truly is the best, lifesaving thing an operator can do in a small number of cases." From: https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/suicide-hotline-what-happens-when-you-call https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/suicide-hotline-what-ha...
kerkeslager 7y ago
Without evidence, any comment you make is uninformed, so maybe spend a few seconds with your favorite search engine before commenting. There are numerous reports of police showing up to suicide calls and shooting someone.[1][2][3][4][5] There's certainly a discussion to be had here about whether the shootings are self defense, but Taylor_OD's speculation is certainly not "without evidence". [1] https://www.blacknews.com/news/matthew-tucker-fatally-shot-police-responding-911-call-suicide-crisis-intervention-riverside-county/ https://www.blacknews.com/news/matthew-tucker-fatally-shot-p... [2] https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/12/sheriffs-deputy-fatally-shoots-armed-man-in-lake-elmo-after-responding-to-suicide-call/ https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/12/sheriffs-deputy-fatall... [3] https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/police-investigate-deputy-involved-shooting-in-lowell-after-suicide-call/ https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/police-investigate-dep... [4] https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley/2017/07/26/avondale-police-fatally-shoot-man-during-suicide-call/512796001/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley/... [5] https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-officer-involved-shooting-reported-cobb/x2gNlH1YuTCimQXkEAeEeO/ https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-officer-involve...
- ars 7y ago
  Did you actually bother reading your articles? The person was shot after attacking the cops. You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > The person was shot after attacking the cops. The person? There's five different articles with five different people. > You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun. Did you actually bother reading my post? I brought up the possibility that the shootings were self-defense--nowhere did I blame the cops.

pizza 7y ago

Somebody once called the suicide hotline at my dorm and the cops showed up. This lead to everyone in the dorm knowing she called the hotline, probably not the outcome she intended at all.

ComputerGuru 7y ago
Better than the alternative.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  You know the reputation that US cops have earned themselves for violence? It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person. Maybe I have low expectations but stopping doing something because they're killing too many people unnecessarily seems like a big and uncommon step in the right direction for most law enforcement agencies. Usually they just deny, deny, deny.
  - cauthon 7y ago
    Have they tried not killing people?
    - inlined 7y ago
      “Death by cop” is a form of suicide. Some will try to create a situation where the cop has no choice but to kill or be killed.
      - HarryHirsch 7y ago

nspl_anon 7y ago

So, I volunteer for one of the centers that answers calls to the National Suicide Prevention Line (NSPL). The training that we get involves risk assessing the caller by asking them questions. I won't go into details, but it's very rare that we would call emergency services without the caller's consent, and it would require the caller to tell us that they're in imminent risk of taking their life, and also that they aren't willing to work with us on finding a means of staying safe. The training that we get puts a lot of emphasis on protecting the dignity and autonomy and privacy of the caller. There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc.

altendo 7y ago
>There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc. I would definitely argue that this is the case. Like you, I also volunteer for one of the NSPL crisis centers, and we don't generally call emergency services unless it's absolutely necessary, but there are definitely stories out there where they were called when (in my personal opinion as a volunteer) it was not required. I seem to remember a story about a veteran getting an unwelcomed visit from law enforcement simply because they owned guns and had suicidal thoughts with no intent to harm themselves. If I can find the story again I will link it.

notabee 7y ago

Some cities have dedicated mental health crisis units that are trained to deal with such situations, and some cities do not. In most of these cases, emergency services are only called if the situation escalates out of the control of the person on the phone or therapist. E.g.: Situation 1: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "No, I just can't stop thinking about it and I don't see any other way out." Therapist/volunteer: Gives resources, talks "Do you think you will be safe until you can make it to counseling/crisis center/other help?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes." no emergency services are called Situation 2: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have this bottle of pills/knife/rope and I'm doing it tonight." Therapist/volunteer: tries to talk them out of it, and get positive affirmation that they will be safe, but fails emergency services are called Situation 3: Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?" Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have a gun and I'm going to kill someone else too" cops are called immediately Those are extremely contrived examples and I'm not a therapist/volunteer myself (I just know a few), but that's generally how it goes. Emergency services are called only when the caller has a concrete plan, the means, and refuses alternatives or represents a danger to others. In some places with poor services (read: places that probably need them the most, unfortunately) this just winds up being poorly trained cops and people get shot sometimes because the cop "felt threatened". Bear this in mind in how you communicate such an emergency, if you ever face it with a loved one. Know your resources.

jdietrich 7y ago

There's a more fundamental issue - a mental health crisis is a medical emergency, not a crime. Police officers are rarely trained in mental health first aid and are not appropriate first responders. The default should be to dispatch an ambulance, with police support if specifically required.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

zenexer 7y ago

If things go south, in the US, yes, you can be sectioned. That probably shouldn't be seen as a negative, though. You'd typically be taken to an ER where a qualified medical professional would talk to you and decide whether you're likely to need assistance from a hospital. If you are, you're sectioned, which means you're placed under observation for three business days. During that time, they would typically provide a wealth of medical and mental services to you; full check-ups, access to therapists, etc. You're also given free access to a lawyer, if you so choose. If, after three days, they determine that you're not a danger to yourself or anyone else, out the door you go. If they determine that you're in harm's way, they talk to you and make recommendations. You don't have to agree to any of them. Typically they involve plans for moving forward, like making arrangements to see appropriate medical professionals on a regular basis, finding housing (if you're homeless), enrolling in rehab... whatever is relevant to your case. If they decide you need to stay, but you say you want to leave, they can either take the matter to court, or they can let you walk out the door. I've only ever talked to one person who landed in that situation; it doesn't seem to happen to most people who get sectioned. Obviously, some areas of the US have worse medical and mental care than others. If you're in a part of the US that's lacking in that regard, it could be more like a jail sentence than assistance.

satokema_work 7y ago
Remember that in the end they will send you a bill for this entire circus, so unless it's an acute emergency you do not actually want any of this.
- zenexer 7y ago
  That depends very much on the circumstances. With decent insurance, they'll pay for almost all of it. Depending on your location, the state, federal government, or hospital may be required to foot the bill. If the alternative is being dead, well... but yes, you don't want it unless it's a serious emergency. Chances are a welfare check isn't going to result in sectioning anyway, though.