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I thought there needed to be 2 parties in agreement to enter a contract. I don't know much about how Corellium does business, but if they can get their hands on

I thought there needed to be 2 parties in agreement to enter a contract. I don't know much about how Corellium does business, but if they can get their hands on iOS images without specifically agreeing to a contract - is there a contract? Perhaps the whole EULA thing is old news but I'm still not sure if I'm bound to every condition stated in a EULA when my cat clicks "Agree"... I thought at one point, the courts ruled that EULAs are pretty toothless. These are honest questions - I have no clue.

zimpenfish 7y ago
> if they can get their hands on iOS images without specifically agreeing to a contract - is there a contract? If I can get my hands on your car without specifically agreeing a contract to pay for it, ...
- saghm 7y ago
  The issue with this argument is that there can only ever be once instance of my car in existence at a given time. If you take my car, I don't have it. If you download a copy of my software that I give away for free and use it in a way I don't want you to, that doesn't stop me (or anyone else) from using it. That's not to say that there isn't some argument that using software against the terms of a license should be illegal; I just don't think the analogy to physical goods is a very good one.
  - torstenvl 7y ago
    What's the difference between you owning a car and you having the right to use a communal car? The core of the legal concept of property is the right to exclude others. This is an academic philosophical lens to view it through, but it's fundamental to understanding how the law treats these things. "Property" isn't a physical thing itself, it's your right to exclude others. (This, by the way, is also a useful lens through which to view Fourth Amendment jurisprudence). The property you're "stealing" in a copyright infringement case isn't the bits themselves. The property is the right to exclude others from copying, publicly performing, etc. By doing so without a license, you're denying the software licensor the ability to exclude you.
rifung 7y ago
> Perhaps the whole EULA thing is old news but I'm still not sure if I'm bound to every condition stated in a EULA when my cat clicks "Agree"... I thought at one point, the courts ruled that EULAs are pretty toothless. These are honest questions - I have no clue. IANAL but I would be really surprised if courts are as lenient with businesses as they are with consumers. I think it's unreasonable to expect a normal person to be able to go through the EULA of every product they use. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a business to understand whether the way they are making money is legal.
willstrafach 7y ago
> but if they can get their hands on iOS images They are freely available for download from Apple. See here for handy index: https://ipsw.me/ https://ipsw.me/

zimpenfish 7y ago

> if they can get their hands on iOS images without specifically agreeing to a contract - is there a contract? If I can get my hands on your car without specifically agreeing a contract to pay for it, ...

saghm 7y ago
The issue with this argument is that there can only ever be once instance of my car in existence at a given time. If you take my car, I don't have it. If you download a copy of my software that I give away for free and use it in a way I don't want you to, that doesn't stop me (or anyone else) from using it. That's not to say that there isn't some argument that using software against the terms of a license should be illegal; I just don't think the analogy to physical goods is a very good one.
- torstenvl 7y ago
  What's the difference between you owning a car and you having the right to use a communal car? The core of the legal concept of property is the right to exclude others. This is an academic philosophical lens to view it through, but it's fundamental to understanding how the law treats these things. "Property" isn't a physical thing itself, it's your right to exclude others. (This, by the way, is also a useful lens through which to view Fourth Amendment jurisprudence). The property you're "stealing" in a copyright infringement case isn't the bits themselves. The property is the right to exclude others from copying, publicly performing, etc. By doing so without a license, you're denying the software licensor the ability to exclude you.

rifung 7y ago

> Perhaps the whole EULA thing is old news but I'm still not sure if I'm bound to every condition stated in a EULA when my cat clicks "Agree"... I thought at one point, the courts ruled that EULAs are pretty toothless. These are honest questions - I have no clue. IANAL but I would be really surprised if courts are as lenient with businesses as they are with consumers. I think it's unreasonable to expect a normal person to be able to go through the EULA of every product they use. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a business to understand whether the way they are making money is legal.

willstrafach 7y ago

> but if they can get their hands on iOS images They are freely available for download from Apple. See here for handy index: https://ipsw.me/ https://ipsw.me/