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Leaves me very uncomfortable, this combination of honesty as a humblebrag with ethically-dubious practices. What lesson does this teach me, an unemployed progr

by jmkd 7y ago

Leaves me very uncomfortable, this combination of honesty as a humblebrag with ethically-dubious practices. What lesson does this teach me, an unemployed program manager with plenty of experience and principles?

drenvuk 7y ago
A practical one. Your principles may not be conducive to creating wealth and if wealth is your goal you should adjust them.
- addicted 7y ago
  That’s backwards. This shows that it’s possible to have a successful business without the principles the OP adheres to. It does not say anything about whether or not it’s possible to be successful with the principles, or if there is a need to adjust them. It’s completely possible the principles the OP adheres to make success more likely, or is likely to make any success larger. Or the opposite may be true, but this one story does not tell you anything about that.
  - drenvuk 7y ago
    I like you. I see the logic but now I wonder whether the article hints at the possibility that the principles aren't helpful. Following your logic it sounds like the only way to be sure is to wait until OP passes away or we have a large sample size of people who have similar principles. What about the opposite though? We have numerous examples where people who some could argue don't have the best principles but have been very successful. Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, Carly Fiorina, Marissa Mayer, Henry Nicholas III, Elon Musk, John D. Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and more. Putting it bluntly, they just do what's needed to further their goals - and everyone else be damned if it's not helpful to their goals to help them out. If you go past the puff pieces and dig a bit you see the net effect of their principles is to let them win. Maybe lack of evidence about the effectiveness of OP's principles is not evidence but it's reasonable to consider following in the winner's example.
    - TheGRS 7y ago
      This is a really elaborate way of saying that you can sell things better if you lie to people. I think most of us know that.
      - drenvuk 7y ago
        That's part of it. More like, just play the game within the written rules instead of the unwritten rules.
        TheGRS 7y ago
        Sure, ethics be damned right? I know a few pyramid schemes that are technically all within the rules as well.
        drenvuk 7y ago
        And I know of a few ponzi schemes that are technically within the rules. There are reasons laws exist. Follow them and soothe your misplaced guilt by spending your money on good causes. That's what Elon and Gates are doing. I don't see a problem with this line of thinking.
        TheGRS 7y ago
        I know we're speaking broadly here and there's a lot of nuance to what constitutes right or wrong, but I think its pretty reasonable to say that if you're gaining money from being unethical, you are part of the problem - that's the issue.

by jmkd 7y ago

drenvuk 7y ago

A practical one. Your principles may not be conducive to creating wealth and if wealth is your goal you should adjust them.

addicted 7y ago
That’s backwards. This shows that it’s possible to have a successful business without the principles the OP adheres to. It does not say anything about whether or not it’s possible to be successful with the principles, or if there is a need to adjust them. It’s completely possible the principles the OP adheres to make success more likely, or is likely to make any success larger. Or the opposite may be true, but this one story does not tell you anything about that.
- drenvuk 7y ago
  I like you. I see the logic but now I wonder whether the article hints at the possibility that the principles aren't helpful. Following your logic it sounds like the only way to be sure is to wait until OP passes away or we have a large sample size of people who have similar principles. What about the opposite though? We have numerous examples where people who some could argue don't have the best principles but have been very successful. Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, Carly Fiorina, Marissa Mayer, Henry Nicholas III, Elon Musk, John D. Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and more. Putting it bluntly, they just do what's needed to further their goals - and everyone else be damned if it's not helpful to their goals to help them out. If you go past the puff pieces and dig a bit you see the net effect of their principles is to let them win. Maybe lack of evidence about the effectiveness of OP's principles is not evidence but it's reasonable to consider following in the winner's example.
  - TheGRS 7y ago
    This is a really elaborate way of saying that you can sell things better if you lie to people. I think most of us know that.
    - drenvuk 7y ago
      That's part of it. More like, just play the game within the written rules instead of the unwritten rules.
      - TheGRS 7y ago
        Sure, ethics be damned right? I know a few pyramid schemes that are technically all within the rules as well.
        drenvuk 7y ago
        And I know of a few ponzi schemes that are technically within the rules. There are reasons laws exist. Follow them and soothe your misplaced guilt by spending your money on good causes. That's what Elon and Gates are doing. I don't see a problem with this line of thinking.
        TheGRS 7y ago
        I know we're speaking broadly here and there's a lot of nuance to what constitutes right or wrong, but I think its pretty reasonable to say that if you're gaining money from being unethical, you are part of the problem - that's the issue.