8 ms·

What is the feasibility of this, deploying it on a large scale? I did some quick calculations on a napkin. Apparently there are between 1 billion and 1.5 bill

What is the feasibility of this, deploying it on a large scale? I did some quick calculations on a napkin. Apparently there are between 1 billion and 1.5 billion cows [0][1]. Let’s just say 1.5 Billion. In New Zealand the beef (dry cow) vs dairy cow ratio is almost 1:1 [2], but I assume that countries like India have more dairy cows, so I just assumed that 60% percent of cows are dairy cows. Apparently dry cows consume around 25 lb (11 kilogram) dry matter per day [3], milking cows 25kg dry matter [4]. Let’s just assume that 1% of the dry matter needs to be replaced with the algae, which is half of what the article mentions. That would mean, that we need: (1500 Million * 0.6 * 0.01 * 25kg) + (1500 Million * 0.4 * 0.01 * 11kg) = 291 Million kilogram = 291.000 metric tons of algae per day Just the logistics alone is major feat to pull off, put on a yearly scale the weight of these algae equals half of the trash produced in the US per year [5]. [0]: https://beef2live.com/story-world-cattle-inventory-ranking-countries-0-106905 https://beef2live.com/story-world-cattle-inventory-ranking-c... [1]: https://www.drovers.com/article/world-cattle-inventory-ranking-countries-fao https://www.drovers.com/article/world-cattle-inventory-ranki... [2]: https://teara.govt.nz/files/1_183_Beef_Ratios_0.pdf https://teara.govt.nz/files/1_183_Beef_Ratios_0.pdf [3]: http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/3154/how-much-forage-does-a-beef-cow-consume-each-day/ http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/3154/how-much-forage-doe... [4]: https://albertamilk.com/ask-dairy-farmer/how-much-feed-does-a-cow-need-to-produce-1-litre-of-milk/ https://albertamilk.com/ask-dairy-farmer/how-much-feed-does-... [5]: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=291*365+million+kilogram https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=291*365+million+kilogr...

Seldaek 7y ago
Sounds like we need to start researching the effects of eating US trash on cow methane emissions. There might be a synergy here.
shlant 7y ago
it certainly seems like a farfetched bandaid for a very inefficient food source (no matter how you view it)
- asciimo 7y ago
  Definitely. We'll never harvest more than 10% of the energy we feed livestock. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    There are plenty of things that animals can eat that are inedible to humans, or at the very least unpalatable. Tree fodder, rapeseed meal, sunflower husks, wetland reeds. Feeding animals nothing but corn and soybean is a travesty for a number of reasons but that doesn't mean meat production as a whole needs to stop.
    - asciimo 7y ago
      Is one of those reasons that it is inhumane?
    - shlant 7y ago
      > Feeding animals nothing but corn and soybean is a travesty for a number of reasons but that doesn't mean meat production as a whole needs to stop. Best estimates show that 70%+ of cows and 98%+ of all other meat comes from factory farms(CAFO's)[1], so to say "meat production as a whole needs to stop" is not that far off when almost all of it is what you would describe as "a travesty". Good luck finding enough "Tree fodder, rapeseed meal, sunflower husks [and] wetland reeds" to make up for it. We don't have enough grazable land in the WORLD to support the kind of meat consumption in most 1st world countries[2]. 1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iUpRFOPmAE5IO4hO4PyS4MP_kHzkuM_-soqAyVNQcJc/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iUpRFOPmAE5IO4hO4PyS... 2. https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets
- gridlockd 7y ago
  It's not all that inefficient for what it is. Just look at how expensive products like Beyond Meat are, and they don't even come that close in terms of taste and nutrition.
giarc 7y ago
The US produces 912,358 tonnes of corn per day (or 900 million kg). I suspect corn is much easier to grow than seaweed though. Just as a perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_States#Agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_...
- avisser 7y ago
  Setting aside the difficulty in growing, algae will have the advantage of a continuous growing cycle, as opposed to corn which has a full year's crop harvested in ~25 days.
- leipert 7y ago
  Mhm... Looking at the numbers again: 291,000 metric tons per day => ~ 106 Million metric tons per year. In 2014 the world wide Aquatic Plants (which include ALL Macro-Algae) production was around 27 Million tons [0]. [0]: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf, page 24, table 7
  - badestrand 7y ago
    Current production shouldn't matter and the sea is huge - if the algae are uncomplicated to grow I don't see any reason why there should be a limit to future production.
    - TendOcean 7y ago
      You mean other than the fact that techniques for efficiently growing such amounts of seaweed do not exist? Of the amount produced globally today, 90% comes from China, Korea, Japan, and the Philippines and that production is all very labor intensive and done in locations and using methods that are simply not applicable to the United States. There is a huge about of R&D needed to get any of this to scale. Some of it is already underway.
- TendOcean 7y ago
  That is probably an incorrect assumption. Corn farming requires land, fresh water, and fertilizer - all very expensive. Growing seaweed requires none of those things, only ocean space and a proper farm system.
benj111 7y ago
Thanks for this, I tried to do the calcs but couldn't find all the numbers. Thb I'm not particularly fazed by the large numbers, we already manage to ship 100 times this for the global herd already. The big question is the economics, if the economic benefits (milk/beef) yield are bigger than the costs it'll take off regardless. If the economics aren't there it may take a bit longer but there aren't many governments worried about sticking their oar into farming matters.
goodalgae 7y ago
The numbers I often cite are for the US market: 94.8 million head of cattle * 25 pounds dry weight * .01 = 23,700,000 pounds of AT per day or 11,850 tons. You're right that we can break this down with more granularity between US beef cattle (31.8 million head requiring 3,975 tons AT at 25 dry weight pounds daily consumption), dairy (9.35 million head requiring 4,675 tons AT @ 50 dry weight pounds daily consumption), calves, etc. For these two markets, the total daily tonnage required is 8,650. There are cattle that don't fall into dairy or beef categories. For US cattle industry numbers and statistics, see: https://www.ncba.org/beefindustrystatistics.aspx https://www.ncba.org/beefindustrystatistics.aspx We should be careful we don't talk ourselves out of efforts that are good for the world simply because they're not a one-stop solution. If Good Algae can grow to address markets outside of the US, amazing, but we will start here. And I will champion those taking additional measures to combat the crisis facing our planet.

Seldaek 7y ago

Sounds like we need to start researching the effects of eating US trash on cow methane emissions. There might be a synergy here.

shlant 7y ago

it certainly seems like a farfetched bandaid for a very inefficient food source (no matter how you view it)

asciimo 7y ago
Definitely. We'll never harvest more than 10% of the energy we feed livestock. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  There are plenty of things that animals can eat that are inedible to humans, or at the very least unpalatable. Tree fodder, rapeseed meal, sunflower husks, wetland reeds. Feeding animals nothing but corn and soybean is a travesty for a number of reasons but that doesn't mean meat production as a whole needs to stop.
  - asciimo 7y ago
    Is one of those reasons that it is inhumane?
  - shlant 7y ago
    > Feeding animals nothing but corn and soybean is a travesty for a number of reasons but that doesn't mean meat production as a whole needs to stop. Best estimates show that 70%+ of cows and 98%+ of all other meat comes from factory farms(CAFO's)[1], so to say "meat production as a whole needs to stop" is not that far off when almost all of it is what you would describe as "a travesty". Good luck finding enough "Tree fodder, rapeseed meal, sunflower husks [and] wetland reeds" to make up for it. We don't have enough grazable land in the WORLD to support the kind of meat consumption in most 1st world countries[2]. 1. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iUpRFOPmAE5IO4hO4PyS4MP_kHzkuM_-soqAyVNQcJc/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iUpRFOPmAE5IO4hO4PyS... 2. https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets
gridlockd 7y ago
It's not all that inefficient for what it is. Just look at how expensive products like Beyond Meat are, and they don't even come that close in terms of taste and nutrition.

giarc 7y ago

The US produces 912,358 tonnes of corn per day (or 900 million kg). I suspect corn is much easier to grow than seaweed though. Just as a perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_States#Agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_production_in_the_United_...

avisser 7y ago
Setting aside the difficulty in growing, algae will have the advantage of a continuous growing cycle, as opposed to corn which has a full year's crop harvested in ~25 days.
leipert 7y ago
Mhm... Looking at the numbers again: 291,000 metric tons per day => ~ 106 Million metric tons per year. In 2014 the world wide Aquatic Plants (which include ALL Macro-Algae) production was around 27 Million tons [0]. [0]: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5555e.pdf, page 24, table 7
- badestrand 7y ago
  Current production shouldn't matter and the sea is huge - if the algae are uncomplicated to grow I don't see any reason why there should be a limit to future production.
  - TendOcean 7y ago
    You mean other than the fact that techniques for efficiently growing such amounts of seaweed do not exist? Of the amount produced globally today, 90% comes from China, Korea, Japan, and the Philippines and that production is all very labor intensive and done in locations and using methods that are simply not applicable to the United States. There is a huge about of R&D needed to get any of this to scale. Some of it is already underway.
TendOcean 7y ago
That is probably an incorrect assumption. Corn farming requires land, fresh water, and fertilizer - all very expensive. Growing seaweed requires none of those things, only ocean space and a proper farm system.

benj111 7y ago

Thanks for this, I tried to do the calcs but couldn't find all the numbers. Thb I'm not particularly fazed by the large numbers, we already manage to ship 100 times this for the global herd already. The big question is the economics, if the economic benefits (milk/beef) yield are bigger than the costs it'll take off regardless. If the economics aren't there it may take a bit longer but there aren't many governments worried about sticking their oar into farming matters.

goodalgae 7y ago

The numbers I often cite are for the US market: 94.8 million head of cattle * 25 pounds dry weight * .01 = 23,700,000 pounds of AT per day or 11,850 tons. You're right that we can break this down with more granularity between US beef cattle (31.8 million head requiring 3,975 tons AT at 25 dry weight pounds daily consumption), dairy (9.35 million head requiring 4,675 tons AT @ 50 dry weight pounds daily consumption), calves, etc. For these two markets, the total daily tonnage required is 8,650. There are cattle that don't fall into dairy or beef categories. For US cattle industry numbers and statistics, see: https://www.ncba.org/beefindustrystatistics.aspx https://www.ncba.org/beefindustrystatistics.aspx We should be careful we don't talk ourselves out of efforts that are good for the world simply because they're not a one-stop solution. If Good Algae can grow to address markets outside of the US, amazing, but we will start here. And I will champion those taking additional measures to combat the crisis facing our planet.