4 ms·

It disappoints, but doesn't surprise me yo see the immediate links to military use in this article and elsewhere. I was recently on a trip with my nearly 100 y

by asteli 7y ago

It disappoints, but doesn't surprise me yo see the immediate links to military use in this article and elsewhere. I was recently on a trip with my nearly 100 y/o grandmother, who up until this point has resisted using a wheelchair. Walking, and especially stairs ended up being too much and we had to borrow wheelchairs, catch shuttles to get around. If she had even a modest mechanical assist she could have traveled with probably just a cane.

rkangel 7y ago
It is inevitable - the military is a good source of funding for technology that can enhance human performance. More often than not, this tech ends up in consumer hands down the pipeline.
mattkrause 7y ago
It’s actually good news for your grandma: DARPA is relatively keen on turning research into products. Most of their proposals ask about commercialization plans, how you’ll handle regulatory approval, etc. Their goal is to get stuff to a point where the DoD can buy 100,000 of something off the shelf. Other funding agencies (e.g., the NIH) are less interested in that and would rather see more papers and citations. DARPA is also a bit more adventurous in what they’ll fund. I’m not sure the NIH or NSF would have picked up any of the projects I worked on without preliminary data (which we needed the money to generate so...)
Ensorceled 7y ago
I have a friend with MS who struggling and will soon end up in a wheelchair, priority order from the article: 1. Military 2. "weekend warriors" 3. Help people with medical issues such as multiple sclerosis or Parkinson's disease to move more easily
- thaeli 7y ago
  Formally targeting people with medical issues makes your device a "medical device" and adds extensive certification delays. If you make something that's "totally just for weekend warriors" but it's useful for people with medical issues, they.. can still use it, but since it's not being marketed as a "medical device" the onerous FDA approval process isn't invoked.
  - Ensorceled 7y ago
    Daily activity assist devices dodge a bunch of those "extensive certification delays".
  - VLM 7y ago
    For practical examples to examine scalability of prices, consider cooling vests, a vest you wear that circulates cooler water to keep you comfy. Weekend warrior products run around $200. I am toying with the idea of buying this or making my own to take hikes in hot weather. Strictly hobby/fun use. "CoolShirt(tm)" products for operating room surgeons to wear under lead vests or whatever are probably more reliable, easier to autoclave, likely more durable, but cost $1500. I don't know why surgeon's need lead vests. Alien autopsies I guess. I can't find the price for cooling machines for surgical patients but I imagine the liability insurance would triple the cost of the surgeon's clothing, maybe $4500 for a medical product? OF course most of the time patients would have an ice towel thrown on them not a wearable vest, but whatever.
    - frostburg 7y ago
      Lead vests are worn to reduce radiation doses from radiological exams performed during surgery (to guide the procedure / monitor something etc.).
theseadroid 7y ago
Throughout the human history most inventions are aimed to improve military strength initially and find civilian usages later on. Wars, detrimental to individuals, are surely one of the boosters for human race progression.
hailwren 7y ago
Other commenters touched on the funding side, but it's also important to remember the military distills much more concrete goals than your grandmother's application. 'Modest mechanical assist' is quite vague, from an engineering perspective. Especially when you have to consider that your grandmother is part of a statistical population. How far would the machine need to go? How inconvenient can it possibly be? What is your grandmother's pre-existing physical fitness level? All of these questions are very straightforward in a military application. Later moving a military-developed device to a medical-use situation is much easier when it has already been engineered for a much more specific use-case.
JoeDaDude 7y ago
Seconded. My parents are in their 90's and I'd be first in line if I could buy one. I've seen many of these be announced over the years but not one has come to market, whether for the military, the elderly, or the handicapped. It makes me wonder of there is some common problem with these devices that is not easily solved.

by asteli 7y ago

rkangel 7y ago

It is inevitable - the military is a good source of funding for technology that can enhance human performance. More often than not, this tech ends up in consumer hands down the pipeline.

mattkrause 7y ago

It’s actually good news for your grandma: DARPA is relatively keen on turning research into products. Most of their proposals ask about commercialization plans, how you’ll handle regulatory approval, etc. Their goal is to get stuff to a point where the DoD can buy 100,000 of something off the shelf. Other funding agencies (e.g., the NIH) are less interested in that and would rather see more papers and citations. DARPA is also a bit more adventurous in what they’ll fund. I’m not sure the NIH or NSF would have picked up any of the projects I worked on without preliminary data (which we needed the money to generate so...)

Ensorceled 7y ago

I have a friend with MS who struggling and will soon end up in a wheelchair, priority order from the article: 1. Military 2. "weekend warriors" 3. Help people with medical issues such as multiple sclerosis or Parkinson's disease to move more easily

thaeli 7y ago
Formally targeting people with medical issues makes your device a "medical device" and adds extensive certification delays. If you make something that's "totally just for weekend warriors" but it's useful for people with medical issues, they.. can still use it, but since it's not being marketed as a "medical device" the onerous FDA approval process isn't invoked.
- Ensorceled 7y ago
  Daily activity assist devices dodge a bunch of those "extensive certification delays".
- VLM 7y ago
  For practical examples to examine scalability of prices, consider cooling vests, a vest you wear that circulates cooler water to keep you comfy. Weekend warrior products run around $200. I am toying with the idea of buying this or making my own to take hikes in hot weather. Strictly hobby/fun use. "CoolShirt(tm)" products for operating room surgeons to wear under lead vests or whatever are probably more reliable, easier to autoclave, likely more durable, but cost $1500. I don't know why surgeon's need lead vests. Alien autopsies I guess. I can't find the price for cooling machines for surgical patients but I imagine the liability insurance would triple the cost of the surgeon's clothing, maybe $4500 for a medical product? OF course most of the time patients would have an ice towel thrown on them not a wearable vest, but whatever.
  - frostburg 7y ago
    Lead vests are worn to reduce radiation doses from radiological exams performed during surgery (to guide the procedure / monitor something etc.).

theseadroid 7y ago

Throughout the human history most inventions are aimed to improve military strength initially and find civilian usages later on. Wars, detrimental to individuals, are surely one of the boosters for human race progression.

hailwren 7y ago

Other commenters touched on the funding side, but it's also important to remember the military distills much more concrete goals than your grandmother's application. 'Modest mechanical assist' is quite vague, from an engineering perspective. Especially when you have to consider that your grandmother is part of a statistical population. How far would the machine need to go? How inconvenient can it possibly be? What is your grandmother's pre-existing physical fitness level? All of these questions are very straightforward in a military application. Later moving a military-developed device to a medical-use situation is much easier when it has already been engineered for a much more specific use-case.

JoeDaDude 7y ago

Seconded. My parents are in their 90's and I'd be first in line if I could buy one. I've seen many of these be announced over the years but not one has come to market, whether for the military, the elderly, or the handicapped. It makes me wonder of there is some common problem with these devices that is not easily solved.