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This is the first time I hear about the term "zeroth world". A quick Google search did bring up some results, but not much. Wikipedia does not seem to cover tha

This is the first time I hear about the term "zeroth world". A quick Google search did bring up some results, but not much. Wikipedia does not seem to cover that. Of course it covers 1st/2nd/3rd world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World). The terms "developed", "developing", and "underdeveloped" are somewhat analogue to that (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country). There is also the term fourth world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_World). Putting countries (or cities) into these categories is hard of course (and maybe does not make sense). It seems that the term zeroth world naturally is used to say that such countries/cities are more developed than the first world. More specifically, more developed than USA. Countries/cities like Taipei, Singapore (in this article) or Norway (http://www.chaosnode.net/blog/2018/06/17/life-in-the-zeroth-world/ http://www.chaosnode.net/blog/2018/06/17/life-in-the-zeroth-...) are such examples (you probably can add some more to that list, e.g. Switzerland). Other articles (https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/america-is-regressing-into-a-developing-nation-for-most-people https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/america-is-r...) argue that we maybe can just downgrade USA to a developing country (i.e. like 2nd world).

OkGoDoIt 7y ago
I think he uses the term creatively, it’s not a standard term I’ve seen elsewhere. Having spent a decent amount of time in both mainland China and Hong Kong, and living in San Francisco and previously elsewhere in the USA, I can definitely relate. So many things about China feel much more modern than the USA. I get better cell phone service on top of remote mountains in China than I do at my home in downtown San Francisco. Public transit is light years better there as well. Certainly there are things that are worse in China, the main one being air quality, but often coming back to the USA after an extended trip in China or Hong Kong is quite disappointing as I reacclimate to our crappy infrastructure.
- kaybe 7y ago
  At least peak air pollution seems to have been passed, so it'll only get better from here (it's still a long way down though). The situation at the moment is a bit difficult in that reducing some of the emissions will actually result in more pollution, since the pollutant mix undergoes chemical reactions and some components deplete others.
- yostrovs 7y ago
  What about going back to China? Do you have to reacclimate to keeping your opinions to yourself?
vinay427 7y ago
American living in Switzerland, and while I'd definitely agree that it's more developed than the US (on the continuum of development in my mind from also spending a lot of time in places most would consider "developing"), I'm just not sure there's a clear difference between some of those countries named and the US. Many European countries seem around where the US is; some are more developed, while others are probably less developed. I have no idea where I would draw any distinction.
- yostrovs 7y ago
  Here on HN, how developed a country is is directly proportional to the quality of train service in that country. Other considerations are too marginal to matter.
  - albertzeyer 7y ago
    Public transport / trains is just one of the most obvious aspects. Of course there are others (public schools, public universities, quality of streets, public healthcare, general safety, food quality, nature, many many more ...). Often they are very much correlated, though. Do I understand you right that you claim that while train service is bad in USA, there are other things / aspects which are better developed in USA, which are at least as much important? Can you give some examples?
    - vinay427 7y ago
      I'm the GP commenter, so not the person you replied to, but some random areas where I think the US certainly exceeds some/many European countries include air quality and quality of specialty healthcare (not health insurance or financial coverage). EDIT: To provide a random anecdote, if you've ever known someone who needed an ambulance in the south of Spain you'll know what I mean. ;) The public healthcare services don't exactly have a very positive reputation, though the private ones are relatively cheap. Random article of an incident in Sweden so apparently it isn't just the experience of my family members: https://www.thelocal.se/20120503/40608 https://www.thelocal.se/20120503/40608 I'd like to find actual data on this but seem to be having difficulty doing so.
aboodman 7y ago
I took the term to be a snarky punch at the "1st world", which asian megacities have long since left behind.

OkGoDoIt 7y ago

I think he uses the term creatively, it’s not a standard term I’ve seen elsewhere. Having spent a decent amount of time in both mainland China and Hong Kong, and living in San Francisco and previously elsewhere in the USA, I can definitely relate. So many things about China feel much more modern than the USA. I get better cell phone service on top of remote mountains in China than I do at my home in downtown San Francisco. Public transit is light years better there as well. Certainly there are things that are worse in China, the main one being air quality, but often coming back to the USA after an extended trip in China or Hong Kong is quite disappointing as I reacclimate to our crappy infrastructure.

kaybe 7y ago
At least peak air pollution seems to have been passed, so it'll only get better from here (it's still a long way down though). The situation at the moment is a bit difficult in that reducing some of the emissions will actually result in more pollution, since the pollutant mix undergoes chemical reactions and some components deplete others.
yostrovs 7y ago
What about going back to China? Do you have to reacclimate to keeping your opinions to yourself?

vinay427 7y ago

American living in Switzerland, and while I'd definitely agree that it's more developed than the US (on the continuum of development in my mind from also spending a lot of time in places most would consider "developing"), I'm just not sure there's a clear difference between some of those countries named and the US. Many European countries seem around where the US is; some are more developed, while others are probably less developed. I have no idea where I would draw any distinction.

yostrovs 7y ago
Here on HN, how developed a country is is directly proportional to the quality of train service in that country. Other considerations are too marginal to matter.
- albertzeyer 7y ago
  Public transport / trains is just one of the most obvious aspects. Of course there are others (public schools, public universities, quality of streets, public healthcare, general safety, food quality, nature, many many more ...). Often they are very much correlated, though. Do I understand you right that you claim that while train service is bad in USA, there are other things / aspects which are better developed in USA, which are at least as much important? Can you give some examples?
  - vinay427 7y ago
    I'm the GP commenter, so not the person you replied to, but some random areas where I think the US certainly exceeds some/many European countries include air quality and quality of specialty healthcare (not health insurance or financial coverage). EDIT: To provide a random anecdote, if you've ever known someone who needed an ambulance in the south of Spain you'll know what I mean. ;) The public healthcare services don't exactly have a very positive reputation, though the private ones are relatively cheap. Random article of an incident in Sweden so apparently it isn't just the experience of my family members: https://www.thelocal.se/20120503/40608 https://www.thelocal.se/20120503/40608 I'd like to find actual data on this but seem to be having difficulty doing so.

aboodman 7y ago

I took the term to be a snarky punch at the "1st world", which asian megacities have long since left behind.