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Well, if you refuse to look at the details, everything looks like a pipe dream. In reality, Germany still exports electricity to "nuclear powered" France. The

Well, if you refuse to look at the details, everything looks like a pipe dream. In reality, Germany still exports electricity to "nuclear powered" France. The plan to stop coal plants does not count on higher energy imports, particularly not in the form of electricity.

lnsru 7y ago
So how you will balance the grid? You can export excess energy to whenever you want, but what happens when renewables are inactive? Russian gas?..
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  That's a typical objection of people who haven't studied the details. The engineers who are behind such proposals and plans actually now that sun and wind energy isn't constantly available. That's way there is a mix of energy sources and technologies, including, yes, Russian gas. But also American Liquified Natural Gas. Oil. Electricity storage systems. And maybe even new nuclear reactors in the future, once a few nagging problems have been figured out.
  - lnsru 7y ago
    There are great engineers for sure in Germany. Not everybody left for Valley or Switzerland. But having 2nd most expensive electricity in Europe is a crystal clear result of bad engineering.
realusername 7y ago
> In reality, Germany still exports electricity to "nuclear powered" France. France imports very cheap electricity from Germany when wind/solar works very well and exports very expensive electricity when wind/solar works badly. It's a pretty much balanced trade between the two in terms of electricity but it's far from balanced in monetary terms, Germany pays the non-stability of their grid at a high price.
- bayesian_horse 7y ago
  Can you substantiate that claim?
- lispm 7y ago
  > France imports very cheap electricity from Germany when wind/solar works very well or when nuclear doesn't deliver enough electricity. Like in cold winters (high demand) or hot summers (low production).
  - realusername 7y ago
    There's no such problems in France right now. There's much lower consumption in the summer, it's the time planned for maintenance, producing more would be useless and I don't recall any issue with the winter load.
    - lispm 7y ago
      > it's the time planned for maintenance also unplanned maintenance, overheating rivers, drying rivers, ... Google is your friend: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-nuclear-reactors-shut-down-edf-europe-heat-wave-a8477776.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-nucle... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/30/heatwave-may-force-nuclear-power-shutdown-france-cooling-water/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/30/heatwave-may-for... https://www.reuters.com/article/europe-power-supply/germany-powers-france-in-cold-despite-nuclear-u-turn-idUSL5E8DD87020120214 https://www.reuters.com/article/europe-power-supply/germany-... https://energytransition.org/2017/01/france-cant-meet-its-own-power-demand/ https://energytransition.org/2017/01/france-cant-meet-its-ow...
      - realusername 7y ago
        > also unplanned maintenance, overheating rivers, drying rivers, ... Those are a very small number of reactors and not affecting in anyway the grid, it's totally planned, you do get clickbait article every year though. By the way, they are only being stopped by regulation as well, not any technical problem. Additionally, renewables had more severe issues at the moment from the heatwaves, above 25 degrees, solar panel outputs drops a lot and generally there's not much wind either during this kind of weather to compensate. https://twitter.com/TristanKamin/status/1153624647243620355 https://twitter.com/TristanKamin/status/1153624647243620355, Here is the electricity production in France for this summer, there's definitely one source of electricity working better than the others during heatwave... I don't know why people keep bringing this up, it's an non-issue and it's never been one.

lnsru 7y ago

So how you will balance the grid? You can export excess energy to whenever you want, but what happens when renewables are inactive? Russian gas?..

bayesian_horse 7y ago
That's a typical objection of people who haven't studied the details. The engineers who are behind such proposals and plans actually now that sun and wind energy isn't constantly available. That's way there is a mix of energy sources and technologies, including, yes, Russian gas. But also American Liquified Natural Gas. Oil. Electricity storage systems. And maybe even new nuclear reactors in the future, once a few nagging problems have been figured out.
- lnsru 7y ago
  There are great engineers for sure in Germany. Not everybody left for Valley or Switzerland. But having 2nd most expensive electricity in Europe is a crystal clear result of bad engineering.

realusername 7y ago

> In reality, Germany still exports electricity to "nuclear powered" France. France imports very cheap electricity from Germany when wind/solar works very well and exports very expensive electricity when wind/solar works badly. It's a pretty much balanced trade between the two in terms of electricity but it's far from balanced in monetary terms, Germany pays the non-stability of their grid at a high price.

bayesian_horse 7y ago
Can you substantiate that claim?
lispm 7y ago
> France imports very cheap electricity from Germany when wind/solar works very well or when nuclear doesn't deliver enough electricity. Like in cold winters (high demand) or hot summers (low production).
- realusername 7y ago
  There's no such problems in France right now. There's much lower consumption in the summer, it's the time planned for maintenance, producing more would be useless and I don't recall any issue with the winter load.
  - lispm 7y ago
    > it's the time planned for maintenance also unplanned maintenance, overheating rivers, drying rivers, ... Google is your friend: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-nuclear-reactors-shut-down-edf-europe-heat-wave-a8477776.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-nucle... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/30/heatwave-may-force-nuclear-power-shutdown-france-cooling-water/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/30/heatwave-may-for... https://www.reuters.com/article/europe-power-supply/germany-powers-france-in-cold-despite-nuclear-u-turn-idUSL5E8DD87020120214 https://www.reuters.com/article/europe-power-supply/germany-... https://energytransition.org/2017/01/france-cant-meet-its-own-power-demand/ https://energytransition.org/2017/01/france-cant-meet-its-ow...
    - realusername 7y ago
      > also unplanned maintenance, overheating rivers, drying rivers, ... Those are a very small number of reactors and not affecting in anyway the grid, it's totally planned, you do get clickbait article every year though. By the way, they are only being stopped by regulation as well, not any technical problem. Additionally, renewables had more severe issues at the moment from the heatwaves, above 25 degrees, solar panel outputs drops a lot and generally there's not much wind either during this kind of weather to compensate. https://twitter.com/TristanKamin/status/1153624647243620355 https://twitter.com/TristanKamin/status/1153624647243620355, Here is the electricity production in France for this summer, there's definitely one source of electricity working better than the others during heatwave... I don't know why people keep bringing this up, it's an non-issue and it's never been one.