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> doing this really changes the economics of the platform Not to mention that moderating this kind of stuff can seriously mess you up: https://www.theverge.com

> doing this really changes the economics of the platform Not to mention that moderating this kind of stuff can seriously mess you up: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/19/18681845/facebook-moderator-interviews-video-trauma-ptsd-cognizant-tampa https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/19/18681845/facebook-moderat... You end up looking at not just mean words but CP, seriously gory stuff, fringe sexual deviancy, and more. Do we really want to do this to moderators?

jakelazaroff 7y ago
If YouTube can't protect its users, and the content people are posting is too distressing even for moderators, maybe YouTube shouldn't exist?
- defertoreptar 7y ago
  Great solution that is not at all impractical in any way.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  The obvious solution is to restrict who can use YouTube in some way that anti-correlates with posting awful stuff. I don't know specifically, but there must be something.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Require verified ID for every uploader. Charge a token amount say $1 for every upload. Only accept uploads from countries with law enforcement that handles bad content and make it clear that law enforcement will be knocking on your door if you upload anything bad. Extend this to commenters. This is just not a difficult problem, YouTube just doesn’t want to solve it
    - 12thsie34 7y ago
      Holy shit you're a vile authoritatian.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      So not accepting content from the United States then? Bad content != illegal. If they started with that YouTube wouldn't have gotten off the ground as people wouldn't go with the "unilaterally acts like they are being controlled by the Chinese Government" service.
- ralusek 7y ago
  Isn't a more reasonable solution that the users select content that they are comfortable with, or just leave the platform altogether? YouTube is mine and hundreds of millions of people's favorite site on the internet. If I see content I don't like, I go to other content.
  - cameldrv 7y ago
    The users don't select content. The recommender algorithm does, and then it autoplays it.
    - ralusek 7y ago
      If you really don't like it, don't go on the site. I don't go on almost every site there is. Do you think it is a morally defensible position that your sensibilities be foisted upon other people in such an extreme fashion that you would deny them access to a platform altogether? Don't you think it's at least worth exploring something akin to subreddits, where communities can be moderated to the tastes of the specific tolerances that represent the group?
      - cameldrv 7y ago
        If you don't like YouTube demonetizing videos, don't upload your videos to the site then. Personally I don't have a problem with people discussing or making videos of whatever they want to. I don't like the fact that YouTube with the recommender and Autoplay is stochastic mind control. It's programmed to make people watch loads of YouTube, and the mechanism that it has discovered to do that is to nudge people to obsess over fringe things, causing them to watch videos about these things for hours per day.
        ralusek 7y ago
        Did you mean to suggest that I have a problem with YouTube demonetizing? If it bothered me enough so as to make the content I like inaccessible, leaving the site is exactly what I would do. That doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist, or be able to do what they'd like.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Listen. I love YouTube, other people love YouTube. For some reason, the people who don't love YouTube insist on asking YouTube go go away. Just go post your videos on YetAnotherTube where you manually run video review and all that shit.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Having to ask permission to exist? There are so many things wrong with that notion.
ralusek 7y ago
Not to mention that people are biased and cannot be trusted to moderate ethically.
- aldoushuxley001 7y ago
  Yeah it seems the best solutions simply involve users flagging content themselves and being able to see what other people have reported regarding other content
  - greglindahl 7y ago
    Yep. No chance that brigading will result. Also, how good are kids at evaluating what other people have reported?
    - aldoushuxley001 7y ago
      Hackernews literally operates on this premise as well. Flagging is a very common feature. Crowdsourcing this is actually a very effective tactic. Also, you'd be surprised how smart kids are if you give them the chance, have the right UI, etc. I'm actually surprised the HN community seems to look down on crowdsourcing these efforts, kinda humorous.
      - big_chungus 7y ago
        No, Hacker News has a very different demographic than most other sites. I'm not saying flagging isn't a viable model, but it's also not reasonable to pretend it's going to work as well.
- tremon 7y ago
  Whereas an algorithm can be trusted to moderate ethically? This is why civilized countries have developed rule of law, including arguments and rebuttals, overseen by an impartial arbiter. Yes, that is costly. But it is the accepted solution we have as a society, and it's time "Big Tech" starts accepting rule of law.

jakelazaroff 7y ago

If YouTube can't protect its users, and the content people are posting is too distressing even for moderators, maybe YouTube shouldn't exist?

defertoreptar 7y ago
Great solution that is not at all impractical in any way.
perl4ever 7y ago
The obvious solution is to restrict who can use YouTube in some way that anti-correlates with posting awful stuff. I don't know specifically, but there must be something.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Require verified ID for every uploader. Charge a token amount say $1 for every upload. Only accept uploads from countries with law enforcement that handles bad content and make it clear that law enforcement will be knocking on your door if you upload anything bad. Extend this to commenters. This is just not a difficult problem, YouTube just doesn’t want to solve it
  - 12thsie34 7y ago
    Holy shit you're a vile authoritatian.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    So not accepting content from the United States then? Bad content != illegal. If they started with that YouTube wouldn't have gotten off the ground as people wouldn't go with the "unilaterally acts like they are being controlled by the Chinese Government" service.
ralusek 7y ago
Isn't a more reasonable solution that the users select content that they are comfortable with, or just leave the platform altogether? YouTube is mine and hundreds of millions of people's favorite site on the internet. If I see content I don't like, I go to other content.
- cameldrv 7y ago
  The users don't select content. The recommender algorithm does, and then it autoplays it.
  - ralusek 7y ago
    If you really don't like it, don't go on the site. I don't go on almost every site there is. Do you think it is a morally defensible position that your sensibilities be foisted upon other people in such an extreme fashion that you would deny them access to a platform altogether? Don't you think it's at least worth exploring something akin to subreddits, where communities can be moderated to the tastes of the specific tolerances that represent the group?
    - cameldrv 7y ago
      If you don't like YouTube demonetizing videos, don't upload your videos to the site then. Personally I don't have a problem with people discussing or making videos of whatever they want to. I don't like the fact that YouTube with the recommender and Autoplay is stochastic mind control. It's programmed to make people watch loads of YouTube, and the mechanism that it has discovered to do that is to nudge people to obsess over fringe things, causing them to watch videos about these things for hours per day.
      - ralusek 7y ago
        Did you mean to suggest that I have a problem with YouTube demonetizing? If it bothered me enough so as to make the content I like inaccessible, leaving the site is exactly what I would do. That doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist, or be able to do what they'd like.
scarejunba 7y ago
Listen. I love YouTube, other people love YouTube. For some reason, the people who don't love YouTube insist on asking YouTube go go away. Just go post your videos on YetAnotherTube where you manually run video review and all that shit.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Having to ask permission to exist? There are so many things wrong with that notion.

ralusek 7y ago

Not to mention that people are biased and cannot be trusted to moderate ethically.

aldoushuxley001 7y ago
Yeah it seems the best solutions simply involve users flagging content themselves and being able to see what other people have reported regarding other content
- greglindahl 7y ago
  Yep. No chance that brigading will result. Also, how good are kids at evaluating what other people have reported?
  - aldoushuxley001 7y ago
    Hackernews literally operates on this premise as well. Flagging is a very common feature. Crowdsourcing this is actually a very effective tactic. Also, you'd be surprised how smart kids are if you give them the chance, have the right UI, etc. I'm actually surprised the HN community seems to look down on crowdsourcing these efforts, kinda humorous.
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      No, Hacker News has a very different demographic than most other sites. I'm not saying flagging isn't a viable model, but it's also not reasonable to pretend it's going to work as well.
tremon 7y ago
Whereas an algorithm can be trusted to moderate ethically? This is why civilized countries have developed rule of law, including arguments and rebuttals, overseen by an impartial arbiter. Yes, that is costly. But it is the accepted solution we have as a society, and it's time "Big Tech" starts accepting rule of law.