4 ms·

What about crowdsourcing efforts? Why are user flags insufficient? Why can't there be a balance between full automation and human review, such as an appeal sys

What about crowdsourcing efforts? Why are user flags insufficient? Why can't there be a balance between full automation and human review, such as an appeal system or 'whitelist' program? Are the economics really the obstacle, or is it more of a corporate stance towards not adjudicating subjective controversies to avoid liability under the Communications Decency Act Section 230?

lordCarbonFiber 7y ago
The problem with crowd sourcing, especially in the LGBT space, is it's really vulnerable to brigading. Give particularly bored and hatful people a bat to shut down channels they don't like and things go south fast.
- prometheus76 7y ago
  Yeah, it's a good thing those brigading actions never go the other way, though, right? That would be wrong and immature and just plain hypocritical...Sure glad it never happens!
  - lordCarbonFiber 7y ago
    Off topic, give that the tread is about an idea for protecting minority groups largely unserved by the algorithm. I fail to see how a "but both sides" proclamation leads to any progress (other than maintaining the status quo which is awful good for a select group of people).
    - 12thsie34 7y ago
      The status quo favors LGBT
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
>What about crowdsourcing efforts? Why are user flags insufficient? Because this will devolve into different groups flagging their opponents' videos. This will especially hurt the voices of minorities and other vulnerable populations.
- mushufasa 7y ago
  What about attaching a 'reputation' score to the flagger? E.g. something like: - if there are sufficient flags, trigger a moderator review - flaggers who correctly flagged content get +1 score or -1 score if not that would make it harder for people to consistently flag content maliciously. Like age-old moderation systems such as calling 911 or police. If you abuse calling 911, you can get fined. I imagine this has been tried before, and am genuinely curious why this is worse than flawed ML.
  - defertoreptar 7y ago
    Yep, I believe there is a way for sure. YouTube can evaluate users by how likely it is that their flag results in long term removal of a video. If a user cries wolf too many times or flags videos later marked as not controversial at all, then that user probably should not have flag powers.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    Have a look at some of the organised voting/flagging campaigns originating from *chans. Those can range from just manual action to automated scripts + account takeovers. Also if you can both post comments and flag them from a different account - free karma.
  - techdragon 7y ago
    This concept reminds me of the “meta-moderation” that happened/happens in SlashDot. It’s good to have a second order effect to damp down excessive fluctuations in your first order mechanisms.
  - prometheus76 7y ago
    The problem with that plan is "correctly" flagged content is subjective. You've only added a layer of moderation to the original problem.
  - username90 7y ago
    You don't think they tried everything already? Youtube did that with Youtube Heroes a few years ago: https://www.adweek.com/digital/youtube-heroes-will-let-users-earn-rewards-by-flagging-videos-more/ https://www.adweek.com/digital/youtube-heroes-will-let-users...
grogenaut 7y ago
Read up on the term "brigading"... It's where a bunch of people usually try and sour a ml approval system for nefarious purposes or to enforce their opinions. Happens a lot with lbgtqia and gender issues in gaming. This is a difficult issues made harder because your going against intelligent opponents.

lordCarbonFiber 7y ago

The problem with crowd sourcing, especially in the LGBT space, is it's really vulnerable to brigading. Give particularly bored and hatful people a bat to shut down channels they don't like and things go south fast.

prometheus76 7y ago
Yeah, it's a good thing those brigading actions never go the other way, though, right? That would be wrong and immature and just plain hypocritical...Sure glad it never happens!
- lordCarbonFiber 7y ago
  Off topic, give that the tread is about an idea for protecting minority groups largely unserved by the algorithm. I fail to see how a "but both sides" proclamation leads to any progress (other than maintaining the status quo which is awful good for a select group of people).
  - 12thsie34 7y ago
    The status quo favors LGBT

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

>What about crowdsourcing efforts? Why are user flags insufficient? Because this will devolve into different groups flagging their opponents' videos. This will especially hurt the voices of minorities and other vulnerable populations.

mushufasa 7y ago
What about attaching a 'reputation' score to the flagger? E.g. something like: - if there are sufficient flags, trigger a moderator review - flaggers who correctly flagged content get +1 score or -1 score if not that would make it harder for people to consistently flag content maliciously. Like age-old moderation systems such as calling 911 or police. If you abuse calling 911, you can get fined. I imagine this has been tried before, and am genuinely curious why this is worse than flawed ML.
- defertoreptar 7y ago
  Yep, I believe there is a way for sure. YouTube can evaluate users by how likely it is that their flag results in long term removal of a video. If a user cries wolf too many times or flags videos later marked as not controversial at all, then that user probably should not have flag powers.
- viraptor 7y ago
  Have a look at some of the organised voting/flagging campaigns originating from *chans. Those can range from just manual action to automated scripts + account takeovers. Also if you can both post comments and flag them from a different account - free karma.
- techdragon 7y ago
  This concept reminds me of the “meta-moderation” that happened/happens in SlashDot. It’s good to have a second order effect to damp down excessive fluctuations in your first order mechanisms.
- prometheus76 7y ago
  The problem with that plan is "correctly" flagged content is subjective. You've only added a layer of moderation to the original problem.
- username90 7y ago
  You don't think they tried everything already? Youtube did that with Youtube Heroes a few years ago: https://www.adweek.com/digital/youtube-heroes-will-let-users-earn-rewards-by-flagging-videos-more/ https://www.adweek.com/digital/youtube-heroes-will-let-users...

grogenaut 7y ago

Read up on the term "brigading"... It's where a bunch of people usually try and sour a ml approval system for nefarious purposes or to enforce their opinions. Happens a lot with lbgtqia and gender issues in gaming. This is a difficult issues made harder because your going against intelligent opponents.