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What stands out the most about Bukowski is his incredible lack of empathy. He looks at people working regular jobs and all he sees are empty bodies. He can't im

What stands out the most about Bukowski is his incredible lack of empathy. He looks at people working regular jobs and all he sees are empty bodies. He can't imagine that maybe these people go home to loving families, interesting hobbies, or rich creative lives. If you've found yourself at the end of a bad economic bargain (which is most people), you tend to rationalize your ambitions and switch attention away from work to more fulfilling things outside of work

silasdb 7y ago
I prefer to think that he writes down what work turns people into: empty bodies.
- alexhutcheson 7y ago
  He (or at least his characters) certainly seems to have that belief, but as a reader it always seemed like the alcoholism was a much bigger factor than the daily grind of work.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    The emptiness of the daily grind probably drove the alcoholism. But the alcoholism left him more empty.
justinator 7y ago
I may have read something quite different than you, but he wrote about how it's almost impossible to escape the types of jobs he was in, even out of regular working hours. He writes about always being on the brink of being fired, no matter what. His further writings talk about escapes hes tried: drinking, gambling, abusing women. He was abused himself. He didn't have an easy life. He was homeless. He won the proverbial lottery but that didnt let him escape himself. Not fully.
smaslennikov 7y ago
I think a difference of purpose is to be mentioned here. Not all people are the same, some strive for different aspects of life than others. Using your example, some seek family, a close social circle, a white-picket-fence life. There's nothing wrong with that, but another group seeks relative solitude, doesn't see a purpose in creating a family or having a nice house, and fills some kind of intellectual hole, be it with creative writing, or relatively non-conformist research. My point is, I don't see Bukowski as one who lacks empathy, rather, someone who follows his own purpose, though, potentially blind to some others' happiness doing other things. Lastly, the workforce ethics back then were quite different from today's. It's my understanding that the pay was significantly lower compared to costs of living while progressing in ranks was near impossible without a degree.
- jacobush 7y ago
  It's exactly the other way around - it is now it's harder to progress without a degree and cost of living is higher.
0xbadcafebee 7y ago
He wasn't talking about their home life, he was talking about their work life. He was talking about how they were trapped at work, and how being trapped turned them into empty things. It's true that many people that work monotonous, bureaucratic jobs can turn spiteful and disinterested in anything other than towing the line to get along. They are the empty people, the ones who will put up with ungodly amounts of shit, just to have the privilege of continuing to put up with that shit. They can't see a way out, and it eats a hole in them. I know few people with a "rich, full life", and a lot more people who work all day, buy fast food for dinner, and then play League for 5 hours until they fall asleep. It's not fulfillment they're after, it's distraction, comfort, escape. Self-medication comes in the form of drink, food, tv, gambling, drugs, even other people.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
> What stands out the most about Bukowski is his incredible lack of empathy. He looks at people working regular jobs and all he sees are empty bodies. He's describing the people he saw every day for decades. If you think you understand those people you've never met more than he did, you're the one who lacks an understanding of empathy.
- throwaway3627 7y ago
  Yes. Projection is a terrible thing to waste, but often contrary data points fall on deaf ears and empty bodies. If society wanted to be more humane and empathetic, it would force all young adults to be homeless and impoverished for some time, and working three jobs to get a taste for how it is for everyone else that isn't sheltered or privileged. The golden rule and empathy isn't practiced as much anymore because there are greater convenient distractions, selfishness, ignorance and lack of community that has the effect of atomizing people from each other... we are mostly divided-and-conquered and enslaved.
MiroF 7y ago
We must have read a different letter! Did you click the link at the top of this page?
tomgp 7y ago
yeah, I haven't read much Bukowski but what I have is often characterised by a distinct lack of empathy. Especially for women.

silasdb 7y ago

I prefer to think that he writes down what work turns people into: empty bodies.

alexhutcheson 7y ago
He (or at least his characters) certainly seems to have that belief, but as a reader it always seemed like the alcoholism was a much bigger factor than the daily grind of work.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  The emptiness of the daily grind probably drove the alcoholism. But the alcoholism left him more empty.

justinator 7y ago

I may have read something quite different than you, but he wrote about how it's almost impossible to escape the types of jobs he was in, even out of regular working hours. He writes about always being on the brink of being fired, no matter what. His further writings talk about escapes hes tried: drinking, gambling, abusing women. He was abused himself. He didn't have an easy life. He was homeless. He won the proverbial lottery but that didnt let him escape himself. Not fully.

smaslennikov 7y ago

I think a difference of purpose is to be mentioned here. Not all people are the same, some strive for different aspects of life than others. Using your example, some seek family, a close social circle, a white-picket-fence life. There's nothing wrong with that, but another group seeks relative solitude, doesn't see a purpose in creating a family or having a nice house, and fills some kind of intellectual hole, be it with creative writing, or relatively non-conformist research. My point is, I don't see Bukowski as one who lacks empathy, rather, someone who follows his own purpose, though, potentially blind to some others' happiness doing other things. Lastly, the workforce ethics back then were quite different from today's. It's my understanding that the pay was significantly lower compared to costs of living while progressing in ranks was near impossible without a degree.

jacobush 7y ago
It's exactly the other way around - it is now it's harder to progress without a degree and cost of living is higher.

0xbadcafebee 7y ago

He wasn't talking about their home life, he was talking about their work life. He was talking about how they were trapped at work, and how being trapped turned them into empty things. It's true that many people that work monotonous, bureaucratic jobs can turn spiteful and disinterested in anything other than towing the line to get along. They are the empty people, the ones who will put up with ungodly amounts of shit, just to have the privilege of continuing to put up with that shit. They can't see a way out, and it eats a hole in them. I know few people with a "rich, full life", and a lot more people who work all day, buy fast food for dinner, and then play League for 5 hours until they fall asleep. It's not fulfillment they're after, it's distraction, comfort, escape. Self-medication comes in the form of drink, food, tv, gambling, drugs, even other people.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

> What stands out the most about Bukowski is his incredible lack of empathy. He looks at people working regular jobs and all he sees are empty bodies. He's describing the people he saw every day for decades. If you think you understand those people you've never met more than he did, you're the one who lacks an understanding of empathy.

throwaway3627 7y ago
Yes. Projection is a terrible thing to waste, but often contrary data points fall on deaf ears and empty bodies. If society wanted to be more humane and empathetic, it would force all young adults to be homeless and impoverished for some time, and working three jobs to get a taste for how it is for everyone else that isn't sheltered or privileged. The golden rule and empathy isn't practiced as much anymore because there are greater convenient distractions, selfishness, ignorance and lack of community that has the effect of atomizing people from each other... we are mostly divided-and-conquered and enslaved.

MiroF 7y ago

We must have read a different letter! Did you click the link at the top of this page?

tomgp 7y ago

yeah, I haven't read much Bukowski but what I have is often characterised by a distinct lack of empathy. Especially for women.