6 ms·

Is there anything about Toptal that isn't scummy?

jameslk 7y ago
Would love to know what you find scummy about them. I've been a freelancer in their network since 2014 and haven't found anything more egregious than any other agency from my dealings with them.
- sidlls 7y ago
  I briefly freelanced with them in 2014/2015 and I found it to be no better than E-lance or the like. They definitely didn't (at that time) do have any better clients, and they constantly pressured me to lower my rate (which I considered already to be low).
  - jameslk 7y ago
    I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.
    - kirubakaran 7y ago
      I'm curious what their percentage cut is.
      - jameslk 7y ago
        Depends but it's been between 30-50%. They add that on top of the rate I request.
        kirubakaran 7y ago
        Thanks. It sounds really high for basically minimal risk and not even actively sourcing the clients, but I guess that's how these businesses work.
        jameslk 7y ago
        They do two things that make it worth it: if you set your status as available, you will actively be sold to potential clients, so you don't have to do any sales and they do all the payment collections, ensuring usually net 20 payment. This is especially helpful for the larger clients that usually take their time to pay. For me, Toptal has been a good safety net, not necessarily where I go first to find new work. And the vetting process adds some credibility to my name.
    - sidlls 7y ago
      When I was doing it they claimed that $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area, and constantly pressured me to lower my rate to that. There were a few clients with names anyone here would recognize, but they were looking on Toptal specifically to get cheap labor for poorly specified work. Most of the clients were more like the stereotypical E-lance "small business" (read: one-person operation looking for cheap developers to build them the next Facebook for the equivalent of a $500 fixed fee).
      - jameslk 7y ago
        I think they've definitely changed. I remember them low balling me on rate in the beginning. Also it depends on the recruiter you talk to. I'm definitely nowhere near $65/hr :)
      - aianus 7y ago
        > $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area I'm confused, I thought Toptal workers were remote. Why would your location factor into the rate a client is willing to pay? FWIW I charged even less than that as a remote contractor and it goes really, really far in countries like Vietnam or Thailand.
        sidlls 7y ago
        My location wasn't the issue: I meant that Toptal was insisting companies located in the Bay Area would not want to pay more than about $65/hr (plus Toptal's surcharge). It was laughable, considering I was at that very moment working full-time at a company with a base salary with an hourly rate equivalent that was more than $65/hr, plus I got bonus, stock, and perks/benefits. As far as I was concerned, Toptal wanted contractors who'd bill like the were competing with E-lancers for business, while Toptal was marketing them as "top talent. "You get what you pay for," and while you (for example) might be an exception, "top talent" isn't going to charge bargain-bin prices for their labor.
        aianus 7y ago
        > "top talent" isn't going to charge bargain-bin prices for their labor Purchasing power differences in the world are insane: $65/h in Vietnam can represent a much more luxurious life than $200/h in San Francisco. In fact, the global top 1% starts at US$35k/year! At $65/h ($130k/year) you'd be able to buy a home outright in about a year, send your kids to snooty private schools, hire a maid and a private driver, etc. in a large part of the world.
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  I've hired freelancers through a variety of platforms about which I have various complaints. I spoke at length with folks at Toptal and bailed because what they offered me was this: You have to pay us money right now. Then we're going to offer you a choice of something like 3 different people. They'll bill $90/hr and will probably be the same eastern European devs you can find on UpWork for $50/hr. Then you have something like 48 or 72 hours to choose one of them, and if you don't, we keep your money. Fuck that.

Would love to know what you find scummy about them. I've been a freelancer in their network since 2014 and haven't found anything more egregious than any other agency from my dealings with them.

sidlls 7y ago
I briefly freelanced with them in 2014/2015 and I found it to be no better than E-lance or the like. They definitely didn't (at that time) do have any better clients, and they constantly pressured me to lower my rate (which I considered already to be low).
- jameslk 7y ago
  I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.
  - kirubakaran 7y ago
    I'm curious what their percentage cut is.
    - jameslk 7y ago
      Depends but it's been between 30-50%. They add that on top of the rate I request.
      - kirubakaran 7y ago
        Thanks. It sounds really high for basically minimal risk and not even actively sourcing the clients, but I guess that's how these businesses work.
        jameslk 7y ago
        They do two things that make it worth it: if you set your status as available, you will actively be sold to potential clients, so you don't have to do any sales and they do all the payment collections, ensuring usually net 20 payment. This is especially helpful for the larger clients that usually take their time to pay. For me, Toptal has been a good safety net, not necessarily where I go first to find new work. And the vetting process adds some credibility to my name.
  - sidlls 7y ago
    When I was doing it they claimed that $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area, and constantly pressured me to lower my rate to that. There were a few clients with names anyone here would recognize, but they were looking on Toptal specifically to get cheap labor for poorly specified work. Most of the clients were more like the stereotypical E-lance "small business" (read: one-person operation looking for cheap developers to build them the next Facebook for the equivalent of a $500 fixed fee).
    - jameslk 7y ago
      I think they've definitely changed. I remember them low balling me on rate in the beginning. Also it depends on the recruiter you talk to. I'm definitely nowhere near $65/hr :)
    - aianus 7y ago
      > $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area I'm confused, I thought Toptal workers were remote. Why would your location factor into the rate a client is willing to pay? FWIW I charged even less than that as a remote contractor and it goes really, really far in countries like Vietnam or Thailand.
      - sidlls 7y ago
        My location wasn't the issue: I meant that Toptal was insisting companies located in the Bay Area would not want to pay more than about $65/hr (plus Toptal's surcharge). It was laughable, considering I was at that very moment working full-time at a company with a base salary with an hourly rate equivalent that was more than $65/hr, plus I got bonus, stock, and perks/benefits. As far as I was concerned, Toptal wanted contractors who'd bill like the were competing with E-lancers for business, while Toptal was marketing them as "top talent. "You get what you pay for," and while you (for example) might be an exception, "top talent" isn't going to charge bargain-bin prices for their labor.
        aianus 7y ago
        > "top talent" isn't going to charge bargain-bin prices for their labor Purchasing power differences in the world are insane: $65/h in Vietnam can represent a much more luxurious life than $200/h in San Francisco. In fact, the global top 1% starts at US$35k/year! At $65/h ($130k/year) you'd be able to buy a home outright in about a year, send your kids to snooty private schools, hire a maid and a private driver, etc. in a large part of the world.
staticautomatic 7y ago
I've hired freelancers through a variety of platforms about which I have various complaints. I spoke at length with folks at Toptal and bailed because what they offered me was this: You have to pay us money right now. Then we're going to offer you a choice of something like 3 different people. They'll bill $90/hr and will probably be the same eastern European devs you can find on UpWork for $50/hr. Then you have something like 48 or 72 hours to choose one of them, and if you don't, we keep your money. Fuck that.