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> Why couldn't we limit the amount of plane travel people are allowed for leisure ? Why for leisure? If you want to get rid of 200 new smartphone models a year

> Why couldn't we limit the amount of plane travel people are allowed for leisure ? Why for leisure? If you want to get rid of 200 new smartphone models a year and other irrational consumables, you'd need to rethink the whole economy anyway, so that it is no more rewarding to rely on unsustainable consumption. This may sound like utopia, but is not necessarily a bad idea. So why not limit business trips instead of personal ones? The CO2 budget which is now wasted by producing planned obsolescent gadgets could partly be used by individuals to get more mindful by traveling, by getting in touch with different cultures, by having a better meaning of life than working their ass off to buy such gadgets. For a little more than four iPhones you can already have a flight from San Francisco to Las Vegas and back [0][1]. If you can't think of this utopia, you're mentally stuck to the growth based capitalistic economy we already have. In this case, limiting these resource wasting consumption goods would turn us right into recession, no? [0]: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-x-environmental-report/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-x-environmental-repor... [1]: https://co2.myclimate.org/de/portfolios?calculation_id=2338955 https://co2.myclimate.org/de/portfolios?calculation_id=23389...

lm28469 7y ago
> If you can't think of this utopia, you're mentally stuck to the growth based capitalistic economy we already have. Oh believe me I can think of it. But see, as soon as you say "maybe we should be careful about what we're doing" you're met with "hold on we can't do anything because we would go back to the middle ages". If we can't get people to do the most basic things I don't see how you realistically can shift to a whole new paradigm.
- milsebg 7y ago
  > maybe we should be careful about what we're doing > realistically can shift to a whole new paradigm. I wish it was different, but I believe that a smooth transition (i.e. evolution) from wasting everything we have to "let's all live a little bit more sustainable" is not a choice. The price tag of such a shift in paradigms may be a revolution. For example I could think of a very very big market crash which would reveal any of these dirty bookkeeping tricks which delayed the crash so far. After such a clearing with all assets set to zero, humanity might be ready to try the next social system experiment, whatever that may be. That would be an event with immediate consequences. But telling John Doe that "the planet is in danger because it gets a few degrees warmer, may not buy you his support for taking away his beloved smartphone and weekends in wherever...

lm28469 7y ago

> If you can't think of this utopia, you're mentally stuck to the growth based capitalistic economy we already have. Oh believe me I can think of it. But see, as soon as you say "maybe we should be careful about what we're doing" you're met with "hold on we can't do anything because we would go back to the middle ages". If we can't get people to do the most basic things I don't see how you realistically can shift to a whole new paradigm.

milsebg 7y ago
> maybe we should be careful about what we're doing > realistically can shift to a whole new paradigm. I wish it was different, but I believe that a smooth transition (i.e. evolution) from wasting everything we have to "let's all live a little bit more sustainable" is not a choice. The price tag of such a shift in paradigms may be a revolution. For example I could think of a very very big market crash which would reveal any of these dirty bookkeeping tricks which delayed the crash so far. After such a clearing with all assets set to zero, humanity might be ready to try the next social system experiment, whatever that may be. That would be an event with immediate consequences. But telling John Doe that "the planet is in danger because it gets a few degrees warmer, may not buy you his support for taking away his beloved smartphone and weekends in wherever...