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There are reasons why this isn't a good analogy. You're talking about controlling human behavior with no alternative. In other words, as a parent or teacher, y

There are reasons why this isn't a good analogy. You're talking about controlling human behavior with no alternative. In other words, as a parent or teacher, you do your best to teach and guide and give them direction and rules to follow, but they still might act outside of those boundaries. And these are children, who will try to be creative and go outside the lines, even if (and because!) it's against the rules. But when that happens, you can discipline, teach and talk. But you don't fire the student or your children. (You can, in extreme cases, expel a student from school. But you're even saying that any discipline should land on the teacher's shoulders!) A CEO is running an organization where everyone involved is in adult, likely vetted (interviews are really common), and if they make mistakes or choose to break the rules, it's perfectly OK to remove them from the organization entirely.

e1g 7y ago
"Criminally responsible". To clarify, my comparison is firmly connected to the request that the CEO is jailed for crimes of employees. Even a mid-sized company is a complex interconnected system with thousands of actors. The CEO can invest into training programs, external audits, training, and close supervision. But the amount of control the CEO has over an Accounts Payable employee is negligible. If the employee defrauds a customer by routing the payment to a personal account, should the CEO be sentenced? "Criminally responsible". No company has more control, rules, regulations, checks-and-balances, and power over their staff that the military has over a soldier. If we are not ready to sentence a General for failures of individual solders/actors, then we shouldn't impose higher standard on leaders in weaker positions.
- abdullahkhalids 7y ago
  From this-thread OP > ... company wide illegal behavior. The behavior has to be systematic and a significant percentage of some subtype of employee (eg. salepersons) must be engaged in it.
deleted 7y ago
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hammock 7y ago
I felt sad when reading this comment. You are saying that children are "creative" and think "outside the lines," but once you're an adult you should follow directions or else be disciplined. A bit dystopian is this society you describe.
- neogodless 7y ago
  I suppose we're getting off topic, but this side topic is really interesting to me. I read a lot of Sir Ken Robinson, so of course that colors my opinions. I'm not of the opinion that as an adult you should be disciplined for creativity, and I rebel against rules that don't fit my mental model of the big picture and the things that I value. But I do believe that in the work place, you are given direction and boundaries, and if you're going outside ethical boundaries or legal ones, then it makes sense that discipline or consequences come into play. (And I think there's a place to argue whether laws are right or need to be changed!)

e1g 7y ago

"Criminally responsible". To clarify, my comparison is firmly connected to the request that the CEO is jailed for crimes of employees. Even a mid-sized company is a complex interconnected system with thousands of actors. The CEO can invest into training programs, external audits, training, and close supervision. But the amount of control the CEO has over an Accounts Payable employee is negligible. If the employee defrauds a customer by routing the payment to a personal account, should the CEO be sentenced? "Criminally responsible". No company has more control, rules, regulations, checks-and-balances, and power over their staff that the military has over a soldier. If we are not ready to sentence a General for failures of individual solders/actors, then we shouldn't impose higher standard on leaders in weaker positions.

abdullahkhalids 7y ago
From this-thread OP > ... company wide illegal behavior. The behavior has to be systematic and a significant percentage of some subtype of employee (eg. salepersons) must be engaged in it.

deleted 7y ago

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hammock 7y ago

I felt sad when reading this comment. You are saying that children are "creative" and think "outside the lines," but once you're an adult you should follow directions or else be disciplined. A bit dystopian is this society you describe.

neogodless 7y ago
I suppose we're getting off topic, but this side topic is really interesting to me. I read a lot of Sir Ken Robinson, so of course that colors my opinions. I'm not of the opinion that as an adult you should be disciplined for creativity, and I rebel against rules that don't fit my mental model of the big picture and the things that I value. But I do believe that in the work place, you are given direction and boundaries, and if you're going outside ethical boundaries or legal ones, then it makes sense that discipline or consequences come into play. (And I think there's a place to argue whether laws are right or need to be changed!)