4 ms·

Yeah that is where it always starts. Think of the children. Childporn. Terrorism. Until it becomes "hate speech" and whatever else the masters dictate.

by kd3 7y ago

_bxg1 7y ago
Advocation of violence has been unprotected speech since 1940. Have we been living in a dystopia this whole time? People who intentionally oversimplify free-speech endanger it, just like people who intentionally oversimplify capitalism endanger it. There is no hardline ideal, in any context, that works. Ideas must be flexible to the real world, or perish.
- henryfjordan 7y ago
  It's not that hate speech and violent rhetoric should be tolerated, it's that using the fact that some people say bad things does not justify monitoring all of the internet. Free speech is a right in the US and having an overlord listening to everything you say is obviously dampening on that right.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    I think whether "hate speech" falls into that category is a more complicated question, mostly because the term can be applied so broadly, but a handful of specific things have been illegal enough to get pulled from the public internet by law enforcement from the beginning, and I think it's naive to suggest that we don't need a category like that at all. Also, it doesn't require man-in-the-middle attacks or weakening of encryption to find public websites that host illegal content.
    - henryfjordan 7y ago
      That's fair, it would be very easy and appropriate for someone to monitor HN for example. I don't think the worry is that Cloudflare is helping police public websites, it's that they have the ability to police private ones that use their services. Their stance of proactively helping to police sites (instead of merely responding to warrants) makes the slope they are on very slippery. Would they be willing to decrypt traffic from a certain IP address to a private site if that same IP was used to post something violent on 8chan? Is that acceptable? Those are tough questions for sure, and ones best decided by a judge and not someone in the private sector.
      - kd3 7y ago
        Not only that but it looks more like they intend to actively monitor traffic in real time to check for things that are problematic according to them and their friends. And people need to realize this is not just for https traffic but also Ipfs and Wireguard. I'm sure it won't stop there either. Defeats the whole point of those technologies to have Cloudflare spying in the middle. This is China 2.0.

Yeah that is where it always starts. Think of the children. Childporn. Terrorism. Until it becomes "hate speech" and whatever else the masters dictate.

by kd3 7y ago

Yeah that is where it always starts. Think of the children. Childporn. Terrorism. Until it becomes "hate speech" and whatever else the masters dictate.

_bxg1 7y ago

Advocation of violence has been unprotected speech since 1940. Have we been living in a dystopia this whole time? People who intentionally oversimplify free-speech endanger it, just like people who intentionally oversimplify capitalism endanger it. There is no hardline ideal, in any context, that works. Ideas must be flexible to the real world, or perish.

henryfjordan 7y ago
It's not that hate speech and violent rhetoric should be tolerated, it's that using the fact that some people say bad things does not justify monitoring all of the internet. Free speech is a right in the US and having an overlord listening to everything you say is obviously dampening on that right.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  I think whether "hate speech" falls into that category is a more complicated question, mostly because the term can be applied so broadly, but a handful of specific things have been illegal enough to get pulled from the public internet by law enforcement from the beginning, and I think it's naive to suggest that we don't need a category like that at all. Also, it doesn't require man-in-the-middle attacks or weakening of encryption to find public websites that host illegal content.
  - henryfjordan 7y ago
    That's fair, it would be very easy and appropriate for someone to monitor HN for example. I don't think the worry is that Cloudflare is helping police public websites, it's that they have the ability to police private ones that use their services. Their stance of proactively helping to police sites (instead of merely responding to warrants) makes the slope they are on very slippery. Would they be willing to decrypt traffic from a certain IP address to a private site if that same IP was used to post something violent on 8chan? Is that acceptable? Those are tough questions for sure, and ones best decided by a judge and not someone in the private sector.
    - kd3 7y ago
      Not only that but it looks more like they intend to actively monitor traffic in real time to check for things that are problematic according to them and their friends. And people need to realize this is not just for https traffic but also Ipfs and Wireguard. I'm sure it won't stop there either. Defeats the whole point of those technologies to have Cloudflare spying in the middle. This is China 2.0.