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At this point the most likely future looks like one where we use all of our resources, wreck the environment, and enter a new dark age. The potential benefits/d

At this point the most likely future looks like one where we use all of our resources, wreck the environment, and enter a new dark age. The potential benefits/dangers of AI seem distant in comparison.

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
I never hear about nature catching up to us- its always defeated and in the corner, we remain dominant. But as soon as society crumbles, meet those creatures and plants we couldnt get rid off- hyper adapted to resist us. Plants to which we are extremely allergic, who are resilient to all herbizides and selective bred for maximum spread into our ecologic niche. Animals, who by virtue of surviving in information dense environments, are very stealthy- and very clever. Carrying out of knowledge or instinct diseases and allergic contagions, to drive us further back into domes. Most of our companion animals/plants unable to dwell in the open in the overheated world we created. All the resources we had for the first attempt gone- no easy to reach oil, the best mines old landfills and destroyed citys. To return from such a dark age, seems unlikely.
- chr1 7y ago
  In the video the author specifically talks why this is not a realistic scenario, plants we can't get rid off in our fields are specifically adapted to the way we handle the fields, without us they will be outcompeted by other plants, the domesticated plant and animal species will give the new civilization a huge head start as most of the time our civilization existed went into creating the species that are able to support civilization, old landfills and cities would be very good mines, lack of oil will be compensated by the remnants of our libraries describing other ways of getting energy.
- primroot 7y ago
  > Plants ... who are resilient to all herbizides and selective bred for maximum spread into our ecologic niche. Ironically one of such plants is Cyperus Rotundus, very useful in times of famine. Perhaps we are living in hyperopic age, where the obsession with economies of scale and controlled environments makes the immediate localized complexity into a high entropy nuisance worthy of destruction.
klipt 7y ago
Or a bit of both - we'll wreck the environment thanks to AI being used as a political destabilizer (cf Cambridge Analytica). Note this doesn't require AGI, just basic machine learning finding ways to push our buttons to make us click more buttons...
- katabasis 7y ago
  That future sounds depressingly like the present!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
tabtab 7y ago
Some people like the dark ages. The advantage goes to aggression and physical strength. Some would rather compete in such a world. It could be why they seemingly battle against civilization.
- the_af 7y ago
  I know this is totally not the point of TFA, the parent comment or yours, but apparently the current consensus is that there was no such thing as the "Dark Ages", and it wasn't a particularly illiterate or barbaric age: https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-as-the-dark-ages-but-ok/ https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-a...
  - katabasis 7y ago
    Fair enough – I was speaking in a more general sense. A better historical analogy would probably be something like the phenomenon Jared Diamond describes in his book "Collapse"[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose...
    - the_af 7y ago
      Sure, I know it wasn't your point. I just couldn't resist commenting because I read that article recently :) Your link is interesting, I didn't know about that book!
  - cabalamat 7y ago
    > there was no such thing as the "Dark Ages", and it wasn't a particularly illiterate or barbaric age I don't think that's true: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/15/were-there-dark-ages/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/15/were-there-dark-ages/
    - the_af 7y ago
      The article I quoted (by someone who calls herself a doctor and a medieval historian, but I have no way of checking her credentials) contradicts yours: https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-as-the-dark-ages-but-ok/ https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-a... Of course, I don't claim to be an expert myself and can't readily judge which of the two articles is more accurate.
chr1 7y ago
This kind of pessimism is not justified, environmental conditions near most large cities are much better than were in 50s, serious issues from climate change that can cause dark age are predicted to happen only after this century, if we keep doing what we are doing now, but by that time we'll have so many new technologies, that these predictions would look as unrealistic as the predictions from 1894 that "In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure".
- chr1 7y ago
  Vernor Vinge actually tells an interesting analogy in the last part of the video: the parable of blind tribe and the wise man. The blind sage of a blind tribe, gathers everyone and says, "my friends, i have found that we are living at the edge of the precipice, run for your lives!"

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago

I never hear about nature catching up to us- its always defeated and in the corner, we remain dominant. But as soon as society crumbles, meet those creatures and plants we couldnt get rid off- hyper adapted to resist us. Plants to which we are extremely allergic, who are resilient to all herbizides and selective bred for maximum spread into our ecologic niche. Animals, who by virtue of surviving in information dense environments, are very stealthy- and very clever. Carrying out of knowledge or instinct diseases and allergic contagions, to drive us further back into domes. Most of our companion animals/plants unable to dwell in the open in the overheated world we created. All the resources we had for the first attempt gone- no easy to reach oil, the best mines old landfills and destroyed citys. To return from such a dark age, seems unlikely.

chr1 7y ago
In the video the author specifically talks why this is not a realistic scenario, plants we can't get rid off in our fields are specifically adapted to the way we handle the fields, without us they will be outcompeted by other plants, the domesticated plant and animal species will give the new civilization a huge head start as most of the time our civilization existed went into creating the species that are able to support civilization, old landfills and cities would be very good mines, lack of oil will be compensated by the remnants of our libraries describing other ways of getting energy.
primroot 7y ago
> Plants ... who are resilient to all herbizides and selective bred for maximum spread into our ecologic niche. Ironically one of such plants is Cyperus Rotundus, very useful in times of famine. Perhaps we are living in hyperopic age, where the obsession with economies of scale and controlled environments makes the immediate localized complexity into a high entropy nuisance worthy of destruction.

klipt 7y ago

Or a bit of both - we'll wreck the environment thanks to AI being used as a political destabilizer (cf Cambridge Analytica). Note this doesn't require AGI, just basic machine learning finding ways to push our buttons to make us click more buttons...

katabasis 7y ago
That future sounds depressingly like the present!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

tabtab 7y ago

Some people like the dark ages. The advantage goes to aggression and physical strength. Some would rather compete in such a world. It could be why they seemingly battle against civilization.

the_af 7y ago
I know this is totally not the point of TFA, the parent comment or yours, but apparently the current consensus is that there was no such thing as the "Dark Ages", and it wasn't a particularly illiterate or barbaric age: https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-as-the-dark-ages-but-ok/ https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-a...
- katabasis 7y ago
  Fair enough – I was speaking in a more general sense. A better historical analogy would probably be something like the phenomenon Jared Diamond describes in his book "Collapse"[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose...
  - the_af 7y ago
    Sure, I know it wasn't your point. I just couldn't resist commenting because I read that article recently :) Your link is interesting, I didn't know about that book!
- cabalamat 7y ago
  > there was no such thing as the "Dark Ages", and it wasn't a particularly illiterate or barbaric age I don't think that's true: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/15/were-there-dark-ages/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/15/were-there-dark-ages/
  - the_af 7y ago
    The article I quoted (by someone who calls herself a doctor and a medieval historian, but I have no way of checking her credentials) contradicts yours: https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-as-the-dark-ages-but-ok/ https://going-medieval.com/2017/05/26/theres-no-such-thing-a... Of course, I don't claim to be an expert myself and can't readily judge which of the two articles is more accurate.

chr1 7y ago

This kind of pessimism is not justified, environmental conditions near most large cities are much better than were in 50s, serious issues from climate change that can cause dark age are predicted to happen only after this century, if we keep doing what we are doing now, but by that time we'll have so many new technologies, that these predictions would look as unrealistic as the predictions from 1894 that "In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure".

chr1 7y ago
Vernor Vinge actually tells an interesting analogy in the last part of the video: the parable of blind tribe and the wise man. The blind sage of a blind tribe, gathers everyone and says, "my friends, i have found that we are living at the edge of the precipice, run for your lives!"