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The entire point of investment is to sell for more than you buy, so yes, the exit is, and always has been the only thing that matters. And your accusation that

The entire point of investment is to sell for more than you buy, so yes, the exit is, and always has been the only thing that matters. And your accusation that it is a scam is just not true. A scam requires deception and where is your evidence of that?

cryptica 7y ago
They're fraudulently exploiting a low interest rate environment by taking huge risks on behalf of other people and diverting responsibility away from themselves when things go belly up. Investors and executives take massive loans on behalf of the companies that they control, companies go out of business, investors and executives walk away with the money, creditors lose and value creators lose (because they can't compete in this unnatural zero-margin competitive environment which these fraudulent investors and executives have created). Also, many big corporations and public companies sell their stock to 401K and Superanuation funds which hold the retirement funds of regular working people who have little control over these funds. People in many countries are forced to pay a percentage of their income into these funds which then essentially hand over the money to corporations to spend on fraudulent acquisitions.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  Where is the fraud? Creditors are very aware of the interest rate environment and still chose to make the loans. Are you saying that Wework lied to creditors to obtain the loans? Because that would have to be true for it to be fraud. Investors and executives are allowed to take risks on behalf of the company because it is literally their company.
  - cryptica 7y ago
    Just as one example, Wework is at least partially funded by Softbank which is a fund backed by the Saudi Public Investment fund. The Saudi Public Investment Fund is controlled by the Saudi government using regular Saudi people's retirement money, often without their explicit knowledge. If you pick any big startup which is losing a lot of money, it will likely be backed in a large part by public money; either through a national public fund or a superannuation or 401K fund. Money which was invested on behalf of regular people was taken from their retirement accounts which they were often legally obliged to contribute a percentage of their income to. For example, even in a progressive country like Australia, people are forced to contribute 12% of their income to a superannuation fund; the process is intentionally complicated to coerce people into choosing between a small number of large funds. It's fraud on a massive scale because the responsibility for the crime is highly divided such that any single act on its own is not a crime; they are only criminal when taken together and if you assume that everyone involved knew what they were doing.
  - cryptica 7y ago
    Also, when a shell startup goes bankrupt, the biggest creditors are the banks that they took the loans from. By that point, the money which was loaned by the banks entered the financial system through executive's and investor's bank accounts (since they get huge bonuses and returns on their investments) and inflated away regular people's buying power (especially real estate markets). This inflation is felt by everyone and it's like stealing.
petters 7y ago
Another point of investment could be to buy, hold, and collect dividends without thinking about an exit.
Someone 7y ago
Traditionally, many investors invested in companies because the dividend those companies paid out on their shares were enough higher than the interest the investor could get when they put their money in the bank to offset the risk of the shares losing value. For such investors, there’s no need for share prices to go up.

cryptica 7y ago

They're fraudulently exploiting a low interest rate environment by taking huge risks on behalf of other people and diverting responsibility away from themselves when things go belly up. Investors and executives take massive loans on behalf of the companies that they control, companies go out of business, investors and executives walk away with the money, creditors lose and value creators lose (because they can't compete in this unnatural zero-margin competitive environment which these fraudulent investors and executives have created). Also, many big corporations and public companies sell their stock to 401K and Superanuation funds which hold the retirement funds of regular working people who have little control over these funds. People in many countries are forced to pay a percentage of their income into these funds which then essentially hand over the money to corporations to spend on fraudulent acquisitions.

travisoneill1 7y ago
Where is the fraud? Creditors are very aware of the interest rate environment and still chose to make the loans. Are you saying that Wework lied to creditors to obtain the loans? Because that would have to be true for it to be fraud. Investors and executives are allowed to take risks on behalf of the company because it is literally their company.
- cryptica 7y ago
  Just as one example, Wework is at least partially funded by Softbank which is a fund backed by the Saudi Public Investment fund. The Saudi Public Investment Fund is controlled by the Saudi government using regular Saudi people's retirement money, often without their explicit knowledge. If you pick any big startup which is losing a lot of money, it will likely be backed in a large part by public money; either through a national public fund or a superannuation or 401K fund. Money which was invested on behalf of regular people was taken from their retirement accounts which they were often legally obliged to contribute a percentage of their income to. For example, even in a progressive country like Australia, people are forced to contribute 12% of their income to a superannuation fund; the process is intentionally complicated to coerce people into choosing between a small number of large funds. It's fraud on a massive scale because the responsibility for the crime is highly divided such that any single act on its own is not a crime; they are only criminal when taken together and if you assume that everyone involved knew what they were doing.
- cryptica 7y ago
  Also, when a shell startup goes bankrupt, the biggest creditors are the banks that they took the loans from. By that point, the money which was loaned by the banks entered the financial system through executive's and investor's bank accounts (since they get huge bonuses and returns on their investments) and inflated away regular people's buying power (especially real estate markets). This inflation is felt by everyone and it's like stealing.

petters 7y ago

Another point of investment could be to buy, hold, and collect dividends without thinking about an exit.

Someone 7y ago

Traditionally, many investors invested in companies because the dividend those companies paid out on their shares were enough higher than the interest the investor could get when they put their money in the bank to offset the risk of the shares losing value. For such investors, there’s no need for share prices to go up.