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The pattern has been established clearly with Uber. All the investors need to get paid off, so force the IPO. Doesn't matter if there is zero profit and no pla

The pattern has been established clearly with Uber. All the investors need to get paid off, so force the IPO. Doesn't matter if there is zero profit and no plans to make profit long or short term. Gotta have our exit! The exit is the only thing that matters anymore. It's appalling that the IPO market has been subverted into a blatant open air scam that our government deems perfectly legal and acceptable. It's despicable and makes me ashamed to work in tech. The whole shell game around who actually owns the shares and controls things through multiple complicated legal entities is just another huge red flag. When this all blows up the only winners will be armies of lawyers who untangle this mess.

thefounder 7y ago
>> It's despicable and makes me ashamed to work in tech. Don't be ashamed! Uber has had a positive influence in the taxi industry. We finally have a decent service and we don't have to pay vip prices (it's subsidised by investors). I'm not sure if it's the case with "we work" as well because the investor might just overpay the founder's lease agreements.
- mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
  But what will we be left with after the investor money has dried up?
alex_duf 7y ago
I mean the exit game only works if there are people to buy. Before buying there's some minimum due diligence to do
alexashka 7y ago
I'm not familiar with the process - what part of it is a scam? What makes tech a unique sector that makes this possible?
- michaelt 7y ago
  what part of it is a scam? Imagine if I had a car that was falling apart, and I sold it for much more than it was worth to some chump who didn't spot the many faults I knew it had. Maybe I put a floor mat over the rust and use thicker oil so they don't hear the rattle in the engine. 100% legal, and by some people's standards not even a scam. Caveat emptor, nothing personal it's just business. Other people would say I was a rip-off merchant for not being upfront about the faults, and that people shouldn't do business with me until I mend my ways. I wouldn't have sold that car to a friend or family member - unless perhaps they had a car repair shop, and even then I'd point out every fault - and shouldn't an honest businessman treat every customer that way? situational87 is the second type of person, and thinks WeWork is the IPO equivalent of a car that's falling apart. What makes tech a unique sector that makes this possible? It's not unique to tech - just tech has lots of IPOs of companies that are losing money.
jopsen 7y ago
If it's so bad, then go short WeWork.
- dmitrygr 7y ago
  Some rule changes after 2008 made it impossible to short IPOs, unfortunately.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    Of course they'd make that rule, those in power don't want anybody calling out their vaporware ponzi scheme IPOs and poo'ing on their party.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > made it impossible to short IPOs This isn’t true. It’s more difficult, but not prohibited. Depending on your account size, most banks will also sell you a put or short swap bilaterally.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  "The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
  - cryptica 7y ago
    Best quote ever. When it says 'you', it's literally speaking to you as the reader. Someone else will make money on the short but it will not be you. Influential insiders are the ones who have the power to decide the exact timing of when the bubble will pop and they will choose a time which maximises their profit at the expense of your principal.
travisoneill1 7y ago
The entire point of investment is to sell for more than you buy, so yes, the exit is, and always has been the only thing that matters. And your accusation that it is a scam is just not true. A scam requires deception and where is your evidence of that?
- cryptica 7y ago
  They're fraudulently exploiting a low interest rate environment by taking huge risks on behalf of other people and diverting responsibility away from themselves when things go belly up. Investors and executives take massive loans on behalf of the companies that they control, companies go out of business, investors and executives walk away with the money, creditors lose and value creators lose (because they can't compete in this unnatural zero-margin competitive environment which these fraudulent investors and executives have created). Also, many big corporations and public companies sell their stock to 401K and Superanuation funds which hold the retirement funds of regular working people who have little control over these funds. People in many countries are forced to pay a percentage of their income into these funds which then essentially hand over the money to corporations to spend on fraudulent acquisitions.
  - travisoneill1 7y ago
    Where is the fraud? Creditors are very aware of the interest rate environment and still chose to make the loans. Are you saying that Wework lied to creditors to obtain the loans? Because that would have to be true for it to be fraud. Investors and executives are allowed to take risks on behalf of the company because it is literally their company.
    - cryptica 7y ago
      Just as one example, Wework is at least partially funded by Softbank which is a fund backed by the Saudi Public Investment fund. The Saudi Public Investment Fund is controlled by the Saudi government using regular Saudi people's retirement money, often without their explicit knowledge. If you pick any big startup which is losing a lot of money, it will likely be backed in a large part by public money; either through a national public fund or a superannuation or 401K fund. Money which was invested on behalf of regular people was taken from their retirement accounts which they were often legally obliged to contribute a percentage of their income to. For example, even in a progressive country like Australia, people are forced to contribute 12% of their income to a superannuation fund; the process is intentionally complicated to coerce people into choosing between a small number of large funds. It's fraud on a massive scale because the responsibility for the crime is highly divided such that any single act on its own is not a crime; they are only criminal when taken together and if you assume that everyone involved knew what they were doing.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xenospn 7y ago
I'm starting to think it's all about that unicorn emoji in their Twitter bio.
hanniabu 7y ago
> When this all blows up the only winners will be armies of lawyers who untangle this mess. No, it'll be the one that owns the land, whom create WeWork to raise funds to pay them exorbitant leases back to them in order to "exit" and cash out/profit before all the VCs.

thefounder 7y ago

>> It's despicable and makes me ashamed to work in tech. Don't be ashamed! Uber has had a positive influence in the taxi industry. We finally have a decent service and we don't have to pay vip prices (it's subsidised by investors). I'm not sure if it's the case with "we work" as well because the investor might just overpay the founder's lease agreements.

mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
But what will we be left with after the investor money has dried up?

alex_duf 7y ago

I mean the exit game only works if there are people to buy. Before buying there's some minimum due diligence to do

alexashka 7y ago

I'm not familiar with the process - what part of it is a scam? What makes tech a unique sector that makes this possible?

michaelt 7y ago
what part of it is a scam? Imagine if I had a car that was falling apart, and I sold it for much more than it was worth to some chump who didn't spot the many faults I knew it had. Maybe I put a floor mat over the rust and use thicker oil so they don't hear the rattle in the engine. 100% legal, and by some people's standards not even a scam. Caveat emptor, nothing personal it's just business. Other people would say I was a rip-off merchant for not being upfront about the faults, and that people shouldn't do business with me until I mend my ways. I wouldn't have sold that car to a friend or family member - unless perhaps they had a car repair shop, and even then I'd point out every fault - and shouldn't an honest businessman treat every customer that way? situational87 is the second type of person, and thinks WeWork is the IPO equivalent of a car that's falling apart. What makes tech a unique sector that makes this possible? It's not unique to tech - just tech has lots of IPOs of companies that are losing money.

jopsen 7y ago

If it's so bad, then go short WeWork.

dmitrygr 7y ago
Some rule changes after 2008 made it impossible to short IPOs, unfortunately.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Of course they'd make that rule, those in power don't want anybody calling out their vaporware ponzi scheme IPOs and poo'ing on their party.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > made it impossible to short IPOs This isn’t true. It’s more difficult, but not prohibited. Depending on your account size, most banks will also sell you a put or short swap bilaterally.
ceejayoz 7y ago
"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
- cryptica 7y ago
  Best quote ever. When it says 'you', it's literally speaking to you as the reader. Someone else will make money on the short but it will not be you. Influential insiders are the ones who have the power to decide the exact timing of when the bubble will pop and they will choose a time which maximises their profit at the expense of your principal.

travisoneill1 7y ago

The entire point of investment is to sell for more than you buy, so yes, the exit is, and always has been the only thing that matters. And your accusation that it is a scam is just not true. A scam requires deception and where is your evidence of that?

cryptica 7y ago
They're fraudulently exploiting a low interest rate environment by taking huge risks on behalf of other people and diverting responsibility away from themselves when things go belly up. Investors and executives take massive loans on behalf of the companies that they control, companies go out of business, investors and executives walk away with the money, creditors lose and value creators lose (because they can't compete in this unnatural zero-margin competitive environment which these fraudulent investors and executives have created). Also, many big corporations and public companies sell their stock to 401K and Superanuation funds which hold the retirement funds of regular working people who have little control over these funds. People in many countries are forced to pay a percentage of their income into these funds which then essentially hand over the money to corporations to spend on fraudulent acquisitions.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  Where is the fraud? Creditors are very aware of the interest rate environment and still chose to make the loans. Are you saying that Wework lied to creditors to obtain the loans? Because that would have to be true for it to be fraud. Investors and executives are allowed to take risks on behalf of the company because it is literally their company.
  - cryptica 7y ago
    Just as one example, Wework is at least partially funded by Softbank which is a fund backed by the Saudi Public Investment fund. The Saudi Public Investment Fund is controlled by the Saudi government using regular Saudi people's retirement money, often without their explicit knowledge. If you pick any big startup which is losing a lot of money, it will likely be backed in a large part by public money; either through a national public fund or a superannuation or 401K fund. Money which was invested on behalf of regular people was taken from their retirement accounts which they were often legally obliged to contribute a percentage of their income to. For example, even in a progressive country like Australia, people are forced to contribute 12% of their income to a superannuation fund; the process is intentionally complicated to coerce people into choosing between a small number of large funds. It's fraud on a massive scale because the responsibility for the crime is highly divided such that any single act on its own is not a crime; they are only criminal when taken together and if you assume that everyone involved knew what they were doing.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

xenospn 7y ago

I'm starting to think it's all about that unicorn emoji in their Twitter bio.

hanniabu 7y ago

> When this all blows up the only winners will be armies of lawyers who untangle this mess. No, it'll be the one that owns the land, whom create WeWork to raise funds to pay them exorbitant leases back to them in order to "exit" and cash out/profit before all the VCs.