4 ms·

Same with "culture fit" interviews imo. How people don't think they just create massive bias is amazing to me.

by jcomis 7y ago

davidw 7y ago
Oh yes... this is a really lame concept. I want to work with people who are 'not assholes'. That's important. Otherwise, I don't care if they're just like me or whatever 'culture fit' means.
- zupzupper 7y ago
  > I want to work with people who are 'not assholes'. That's important. That's what culture fit means. It's a more polite way of saying "Not an Asshole"
  - davidw 7y ago
    I think in some cases it means something more akin to "it'd be fun to hang out with this person in a social setting". I've had plenty of good co-workers where that wasn't really the case and selecting for it is a mistake.
  - x0x0 7y ago
    Not to mention there's a pretty broad range of behaviors that probably don't make someone an asshole, but may or may not work at different companies. Things like valuing collaboration, how blunt feedback is during code reviews, whether tech leads coaching and spending time developing junior colleagues is valued or viewed as wasted time, how open a company is with finances, where company events are on the continuum between a couple glasses of wine vs kegs of beers where people get wasted, etc.
    - davidw 7y ago
      > where company events are on the continuum between a couple glasses of wine vs kegs of beers where people get wasted, etc. This should have zero bearing on hiring people. How much they drink is their own business as long as they don't get rowdy or harass colleagues or something. Among other things, are you going to, say, not hire someone who's LDS because they don't drink at all?
pytester 7y ago
"Not the right culture fit" is pretty much code for "we have reasons we'd like to reject the candidate which we don't want to go into too much detail about". The vaguer the reason for rejection the more suspicious I tend to be that it's at least implicitly related to some sort of shameful prejudice.
- erik_seaberg 7y ago
  Dinging a candidate on culture fit is very rare for me, and basically means "I think some people would quit to avoid working with this guy."
  - pytester 7y ago
    IME when a candidate gets dinged for a reason that would make people quit to avoid working with him (e.g. "he obviously doesn't shower") then people don't tend to invoke the words "culture fit".
asp_hornet 7y ago
While it is a bit general i think it is valid. I’ve made some bad hires and they had common warning signs. Some people are obvious ronin developers that refuse to accept input or accept that there is a bitter idea than theirs. Also, I need my devs to talk to BAs, customers and other companies we integrate with. You will be representing us so it’s not just our team/company that gets affected by a bad hire.

Same with "culture fit" interviews imo. How people don't think they just create massive bias is amazing to me.

by jcomis 7y ago

Same with "culture fit" interviews imo. How people don't think they just create massive bias is amazing to me.

Oh yes... this is a really lame concept. I want to work with people who are 'not assholes'. That's important. Otherwise, I don't care if they're just like me or whatever 'culture fit' means.

zupzupper 7y ago
> I want to work with people who are 'not assholes'. That's important. That's what culture fit means. It's a more polite way of saying "Not an Asshole"
- davidw 7y ago
  I think in some cases it means something more akin to "it'd be fun to hang out with this person in a social setting". I've had plenty of good co-workers where that wasn't really the case and selecting for it is a mistake.
- x0x0 7y ago
  Not to mention there's a pretty broad range of behaviors that probably don't make someone an asshole, but may or may not work at different companies. Things like valuing collaboration, how blunt feedback is during code reviews, whether tech leads coaching and spending time developing junior colleagues is valued or viewed as wasted time, how open a company is with finances, where company events are on the continuum between a couple glasses of wine vs kegs of beers where people get wasted, etc.
  - davidw 7y ago
    > where company events are on the continuum between a couple glasses of wine vs kegs of beers where people get wasted, etc. This should have zero bearing on hiring people. How much they drink is their own business as long as they don't get rowdy or harass colleagues or something. Among other things, are you going to, say, not hire someone who's LDS because they don't drink at all?

pytester 7y ago

"Not the right culture fit" is pretty much code for "we have reasons we'd like to reject the candidate which we don't want to go into too much detail about". The vaguer the reason for rejection the more suspicious I tend to be that it's at least implicitly related to some sort of shameful prejudice.

erik_seaberg 7y ago
Dinging a candidate on culture fit is very rare for me, and basically means "I think some people would quit to avoid working with this guy."
- pytester 7y ago
  IME when a candidate gets dinged for a reason that would make people quit to avoid working with him (e.g. "he obviously doesn't shower") then people don't tend to invoke the words "culture fit".

asp_hornet 7y ago

While it is a bit general i think it is valid. I’ve made some bad hires and they had common warning signs. Some people are obvious ronin developers that refuse to accept input or accept that there is a bitter idea than theirs. Also, I need my devs to talk to BAs, customers and other companies we integrate with. You will be representing us so it’s not just our team/company that gets affected by a bad hire.