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I will agree that tasks like parsing sounds and forming words are low-level tasks, but my original post was about understanding the meaning of language, and it

I will agree that tasks like parsing sounds and forming words are low-level tasks, but my original post was about understanding the meaning of language, and it is not just in my own private lexicon that this is regarded as a higher cognitive process, as a brief search will reveal (e.g. [1].) With regard to your ranking test, is it talking with someone or thinking about a math problem that gets ranked as low-level? It would seem to work either way, in which case, I guess it would be both. [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/higher+cognitive+process https://www.thefreedictionary.com/higher+cognitive+process

Retric 7y ago
Medicine, psychology, and neuroscience all have different definitions of this stuff. understanding the meaning of language Understanding is vague in these terms. You can notice someone calling your name while distracted with other activities. That’s an automatic process and assigning meaning for each word in English is a difficult task. How do you teach a computer what cells are in the abstract? There is also some high level language decoding where people extract meaning from poetry etc. But, we need to get the low level task done first. PS: As to ranking, their are a lot of high level tasks you can’t do at the same time. Often described as things that take concentration, but few language tasks make this list.
- mannykannot 7y ago
  > Medicine, psychology, and neuroscience all have different definitions of this stuff. Well, maybe, but is it conventional usage in any of those fields to call the cognitive processes involved in producing and understanding linguistic communication low-level? Regardless, my ranking it high-level is not just my private usage, as you claimed. In fact, I would guess that it is a more conventional ranking than the one that seems to be implied by your method. > How do you teach a computer what cells are in the abstract? Well, precisely, it's at a higher level of abstraction than just picking out the word (I am pretty sure that's a conventional usage of 'higher'.) >There is also some high level language decoding where people extract meaning from poetry, etc. Poetry may be particularly obtuse, but that does not make all other meaning-extraction low-level. A lot of it, IMHO, belongs in that 'etc.' PS to your PS: There are also concentration-demanding motor skills. And the point about your ranking method is that it seems to put thinking about a math problem at the same level as talking with someone, which you are claiming is low-level.
  - Retric 7y ago
    > thinking about a math problem at the same level as talking with someone Plenty of people can hold a simple conversation while doing differential equations. As the conversation’s complexity increases that stops being the case. There is clearly a difference when talking to a distracted person. But, decoding “Do you want a soda?” and responding appropriately seems to require little if any attention. Neuroscience gives support of this in terms of what parts of the brain are involved in different aspects of language.
    - mannykannot 7y ago
      I am interested as to whether you consider doing differential equations a simple task, here? Presumably so, as your method puts it on a par with simple conversations.
      - Retric 7y ago
        No, you can’t do multiple high level tasks at the same time. Low level automatic tasks like breathing and balance fine to do at the same time. Being able to do differential equations and simple conversations but not complex conversations means simple conversations are lower level. Thus, it’s not language that makes complex conversations a high level task.
        mannykannot 7y ago
        You seem to be missing the point here - your method is symmetrical, and it would be begging the question to break the symmetry the way you want it to go. One can do simple math (calculus, even) while having a complicated conversation -- and if you cannot, it could be because complicated conversations are so intellectually demanding that you can't even do simple math concurrently. And your argument is also beside the point, now that you have restricted it to simple conversations.
        Retric 7y ago
        The argument is not limited to math. You also can’t learn to play the violin while holding a deep unrelated conversation. This extends to a huge range of activities. But, you don’t lose language skills during these activities. Thus it’s (A, B, C, ..., or Z) and language. Thus language is clearly the lesser activity. PS: People can often count or do memorized addition etc, but doing complex math tasks is off the table. It’s odd that some things even prevent you from recognizing symbols.

Retric 7y ago

Medicine, psychology, and neuroscience all have different definitions of this stuff. understanding the meaning of language Understanding is vague in these terms. You can notice someone calling your name while distracted with other activities. That’s an automatic process and assigning meaning for each word in English is a difficult task. How do you teach a computer what cells are in the abstract? There is also some high level language decoding where people extract meaning from poetry etc. But, we need to get the low level task done first. PS: As to ranking, their are a lot of high level tasks you can’t do at the same time. Often described as things that take concentration, but few language tasks make this list.

mannykannot 7y ago
> Medicine, psychology, and neuroscience all have different definitions of this stuff. Well, maybe, but is it conventional usage in any of those fields to call the cognitive processes involved in producing and understanding linguistic communication low-level? Regardless, my ranking it high-level is not just my private usage, as you claimed. In fact, I would guess that it is a more conventional ranking than the one that seems to be implied by your method. > How do you teach a computer what cells are in the abstract? Well, precisely, it's at a higher level of abstraction than just picking out the word (I am pretty sure that's a conventional usage of 'higher'.) >There is also some high level language decoding where people extract meaning from poetry, etc. Poetry may be particularly obtuse, but that does not make all other meaning-extraction low-level. A lot of it, IMHO, belongs in that 'etc.' PS to your PS: There are also concentration-demanding motor skills. And the point about your ranking method is that it seems to put thinking about a math problem at the same level as talking with someone, which you are claiming is low-level.
- Retric 7y ago
  > thinking about a math problem at the same level as talking with someone Plenty of people can hold a simple conversation while doing differential equations. As the conversation’s complexity increases that stops being the case. There is clearly a difference when talking to a distracted person. But, decoding “Do you want a soda?” and responding appropriately seems to require little if any attention. Neuroscience gives support of this in terms of what parts of the brain are involved in different aspects of language.
  - mannykannot 7y ago
    I am interested as to whether you consider doing differential equations a simple task, here? Presumably so, as your method puts it on a par with simple conversations.
    - Retric 7y ago
      No, you can’t do multiple high level tasks at the same time. Low level automatic tasks like breathing and balance fine to do at the same time. Being able to do differential equations and simple conversations but not complex conversations means simple conversations are lower level. Thus, it’s not language that makes complex conversations a high level task.
      - mannykannot 7y ago
        You seem to be missing the point here - your method is symmetrical, and it would be begging the question to break the symmetry the way you want it to go. One can do simple math (calculus, even) while having a complicated conversation -- and if you cannot, it could be because complicated conversations are so intellectually demanding that you can't even do simple math concurrently. And your argument is also beside the point, now that you have restricted it to simple conversations.
        Retric 7y ago
        The argument is not limited to math. You also can’t learn to play the violin while holding a deep unrelated conversation. This extends to a huge range of activities. But, you don’t lose language skills during these activities. Thus it’s (A, B, C, ..., or Z) and language. Thus language is clearly the lesser activity. PS: People can often count or do memorized addition etc, but doing complex math tasks is off the table. It’s odd that some things even prevent you from recognizing symbols.