4 ms·

In Serbia it was primarily Israelis who sold all of the surveillance tech to the government, and now China seems to be pushing everyone else out of the market.

In Serbia it was primarily Israelis who sold all of the surveillance tech to the government, and now China seems to be pushing everyone else out of the market. It really makes a very little difference to common people, one foreign actor or the other, none of the sides is really altruistic in that game...

close04 7y ago
I think this is the real problem: China/Huawei are pushing their competition out of the "support an (oppressive) regime" business. They become the go-to partner for regimes that historically relied on western or middle-eastern partners maintaining their authority.
- cm2187 7y ago
  Maybe merely a quality choice! If you want to buy a nice car, you go for a German brand, if you want fine wine, go French, if you want software, go American, if you want an orwellian mass surveillance system, you go with the country which speciality it is!
  - luzjh 7y ago
    Well said! Thanks for the gold, stranger!
  - close04 7y ago
    > if you want an orwellian mass surveillance system I think this misses the point. Countries like US or Israel are perfectly capable [0][1][2] of offering such systems. And they do because it gives them another solid "string" attached to the regime receiving it. Their problem is that now the string (and all the knowledge, power, influence that come with it) could go to China. Hence the campaign to discredit them simply by suggesting this behavior is limited to them. Putting the facts in perspective would undermine this. [0] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-israel-s-cyber-spy-industry-aids-dictators-hunt-dissidents-and-gays-1.6573027 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-israel... [1] https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/report-saudi-arabia-used-israeli-tech-to-try-and-track-dissident-in-canada-1.6517064 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/report-saudi-arabia... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/17/how-us-surveillance-technology-is-propping-up-authoritarian-regimes/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/17/how-us-sur...
  - waterdownship 7y ago
    Cisco allegedly helped China built their surveillance system in the first place.
wil421 7y ago
There’s a giant empty Huawei building in Belgrade. Someone didn’t pay off the correct government official. I suppose the Israelis did.
arcticfox 7y ago
Israel is very powerful and ambitious for its size, but at 8 million people they're fundamentally limited in what kind of power they can or would want to project. No matter how advanced your intelligence or military there's just so far you can go when you're so tiny. China on the other hand has almost 8 million people for every country on Earth. Imagine how many people they could assign to messing with each country around the world if they wanted to. These are totally different players.
- squarefoot 7y ago
  Israel gets $3.8 billions worth of weapons and other military equipment every year from the US because of its vital strategic importance. If someone messes with them that would be just like messing with an US state abroad; probably nobody would want to test that possibility.

close04 7y ago

I think this is the real problem: China/Huawei are pushing their competition out of the "support an (oppressive) regime" business. They become the go-to partner for regimes that historically relied on western or middle-eastern partners maintaining their authority.

cm2187 7y ago
Maybe merely a quality choice! If you want to buy a nice car, you go for a German brand, if you want fine wine, go French, if you want software, go American, if you want an orwellian mass surveillance system, you go with the country which speciality it is!
- luzjh 7y ago
  Well said! Thanks for the gold, stranger!
- close04 7y ago
  > if you want an orwellian mass surveillance system I think this misses the point. Countries like US or Israel are perfectly capable [0][1][2] of offering such systems. And they do because it gives them another solid "string" attached to the regime receiving it. Their problem is that now the string (and all the knowledge, power, influence that come with it) could go to China. Hence the campaign to discredit them simply by suggesting this behavior is limited to them. Putting the facts in perspective would undermine this. [0] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-israel-s-cyber-spy-industry-aids-dictators-hunt-dissidents-and-gays-1.6573027 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-israel... [1] https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/report-saudi-arabia-used-israeli-tech-to-try-and-track-dissident-in-canada-1.6517064 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/report-saudi-arabia... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/17/how-us-surveillance-technology-is-propping-up-authoritarian-regimes/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/17/how-us-sur...
- waterdownship 7y ago
  Cisco allegedly helped China built their surveillance system in the first place.

wil421 7y ago

There’s a giant empty Huawei building in Belgrade. Someone didn’t pay off the correct government official. I suppose the Israelis did.

arcticfox 7y ago

Israel is very powerful and ambitious for its size, but at 8 million people they're fundamentally limited in what kind of power they can or would want to project. No matter how advanced your intelligence or military there's just so far you can go when you're so tiny. China on the other hand has almost 8 million people for every country on Earth. Imagine how many people they could assign to messing with each country around the world if they wanted to. These are totally different players.

squarefoot 7y ago
Israel gets $3.8 billions worth of weapons and other military equipment every year from the US because of its vital strategic importance. If someone messes with them that would be just like messing with an US state abroad; probably nobody would want to test that possibility.