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I live in Poland which is one of the notorious coal using countries (roughly 0.5% of world's population and 1% of world's CO2 emissions). For Poland this list o

I live in Poland which is one of the notorious coal using countries (roughly 0.5% of world's population and 1% of world's CO2 emissions). For Poland this list of coal power plants is not complete - it does not contain smaller CHP (combined heat and power) plants. However these facilities are cleaner and more efficient than burning coal at individual households, so their environmental impact is probably positive.

kmlx 7y ago
“than burning coal at individual households” wait, what? who’s burning coal at home? :) can you imagine the discussions in those households?
- gambiting 7y ago
  What do you mean? There's still plenty of houses in Poland that use regular coal for heating. There's been a lot of movement towards banning it but there's always the "but what about poor people" argument. Sometimes you can get funding for replacing a coal fired boiler with either one that burns eco-pellets or a gas one, but people are often unwilling as both fuels are more expensive than just buying a tonne of coal at the beginning of every winter - the argument that made my grandparents switch(and only last year!) from a coal fired boiler to a gas one was purely one of convenience, grandpa is too old now to go to the boiler room every few hours to add some coal to the fire, so a gas boiler makes it easier for them. But of course they complained about the absolute fortune that gas will cost them over coal.
  - Moru 7y ago
    Germans also burn coal at home.
    - kmlx 7y ago
      where you buy the coal? do you order it at home, or do you go out and buy a truckload?
      - raesene9 7y ago
        UK Person here. It's not as common as it used to be but still a thing. There's coal delivery people they deliver sacks of coal to your house. Mainly rural areas, although these days boilers will more likely to be oil fired or LPG, you still see coal fires.
      - gambiting 7y ago
        In Poland you just order it directly to your home. We have a coal mine in our town so you'd just get a delivery directly from there - a truck would dump it all in front of the house and then it was always a "fun" activity to shovel it all into the basement next to the boiler room.
      - phaemon 7y ago
        You can get it on Amazon if you like :) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traditional-Coals-House-Coal-20kg/dp/B077VNJH6S https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traditional-Coals-House-Coal-20kg/d...
      - Moru 7y ago
        The local supermarket sells small packs with bricks. If you need more you just order a bunch and get it delivered.
    - _Microft 7y ago
      I never heard of anyone in Germany still using coal at home for anything but the BBQ grill.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    "What do you mean? There's still plenty of houses in Poland that use regular coal for heating." you mean directly burning it? or indirectly from a coal plant that produces electricity and/or heating? why not use wood? why coal of all things? lived in a bunch of european countries. first time i hear about it. is this common in poland? or more of an outlier?
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Burning directly. Where do you live? What do people in the countryside there use? I'd say individual coal burning is less common in cities, but still popular in villages. A family I know that lives in the countryside still burn wood most of the year to heat water and cook meals, and only buy some amount of coal (I think few hundred kilos, maybe a metric ton) for heating during winter. Hell, the first location of our Hackerspace in Kraków - in the very centre of a 1M city - had only coal furnace for heating. There's a lot of old buildings in Poland.
      - thinkcontext 7y ago
        > Where do you live? What do people in the countryside there use? In the US propane, fuel oil and wood are the popular off-grid fuels. Electricity is also pretty cheap here so resistance heat is not uncommon. Heat pumps have gotten a lot better at low temps in recent years, so a lot of new construction or retrofits by the nonpoor will use them.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Heat pumps are appearing in Poland too, particularly ones meant for domestic hot water (vs. heating your home), and there are government subsidies attached to them. The people I mentioned in my example are currently considering getting such a heatpump thanks to that subsidy (it wouldn't be economical for them otherwise). Electricity isn't cheap enough here to run resistance heating unless you're desperate. I don't know anyone using propane for heating, but many people - myself currently included - use it for cooking in places that don't have utility gas connection.
    - 7y ago
- agapon 7y ago
  Not everyone lives in a big city.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    i've lived in quite a few countries (countryside and cities), and it's the first time i read about it. i know about burning wood for heating (done that for a while), but burning coal never. you live and learn :)
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Well, coal is better than wood, but it so happens that some people in countryside have ample supply of free-ish wood :). I know some people who burn wood most of the year, and only add coal to the mix during winter.
    - chewz 7y ago
      Coal is more efficient in our winters. You can load a stove with coal and it keeps you warm all night which is not as easy with wood. It is acctually a paradox here in Poland. I live in suburbs outside of Warsaw, surounded by forrest and still sparsely populated. People are building new houses here to get out of the city and pollution. They build heatpumps (or somerhing else) but also a fireplace as a secondary heating source. Then they learn to discover that coal is cheap, accesible and more energy efficient (more convinient) in winter. As a result in winter at evenings you get smog and filthy air in suburbs worse then in the city center.
gambiting 7y ago
And also our biggest power plant in Bełchatów is burning lignite, which is probably the worst type of coal you could be burning for power generation. It looks like it's scheduled for closing from that graph? And yes, the town that I'm from has a coal mine and a heat producing unit next to it which burns coal to heat the entire town through a system of municipal hot water delivery to all apartment blocks and most private houses.
- terramex 7y ago
  >It looks like it's scheduled for closing from that graph? It is not, it's going to be operating for as long as they can mine enough lignite from current mine (so until around 2037). There are talks of opening new mine in Złoczew, that should support Bełchatów power plant for many years to come. Also, Opole power plant is marked on this map as closing where it was just expanded this year and there are absolutely no plans of closing it.

kmlx 7y ago

“than burning coal at individual households” wait, what? who’s burning coal at home? :) can you imagine the discussions in those households?

gambiting 7y ago
What do you mean? There's still plenty of houses in Poland that use regular coal for heating. There's been a lot of movement towards banning it but there's always the "but what about poor people" argument. Sometimes you can get funding for replacing a coal fired boiler with either one that burns eco-pellets or a gas one, but people are often unwilling as both fuels are more expensive than just buying a tonne of coal at the beginning of every winter - the argument that made my grandparents switch(and only last year!) from a coal fired boiler to a gas one was purely one of convenience, grandpa is too old now to go to the boiler room every few hours to add some coal to the fire, so a gas boiler makes it easier for them. But of course they complained about the absolute fortune that gas will cost them over coal.
- Moru 7y ago
  Germans also burn coal at home.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    where you buy the coal? do you order it at home, or do you go out and buy a truckload?
    - raesene9 7y ago
      UK Person here. It's not as common as it used to be but still a thing. There's coal delivery people they deliver sacks of coal to your house. Mainly rural areas, although these days boilers will more likely to be oil fired or LPG, you still see coal fires.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      In Poland you just order it directly to your home. We have a coal mine in our town so you'd just get a delivery directly from there - a truck would dump it all in front of the house and then it was always a "fun" activity to shovel it all into the basement next to the boiler room.
    - phaemon 7y ago
      You can get it on Amazon if you like :) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traditional-Coals-House-Coal-20kg/dp/B077VNJH6S https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traditional-Coals-House-Coal-20kg/d...
    - Moru 7y ago
      The local supermarket sells small packs with bricks. If you need more you just order a bunch and get it delivered.
  - _Microft 7y ago
    I never heard of anyone in Germany still using coal at home for anything but the BBQ grill.
- kmlx 7y ago
  "What do you mean? There's still plenty of houses in Poland that use regular coal for heating." you mean directly burning it? or indirectly from a coal plant that produces electricity and/or heating? why not use wood? why coal of all things? lived in a bunch of european countries. first time i hear about it. is this common in poland? or more of an outlier?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Burning directly. Where do you live? What do people in the countryside there use? I'd say individual coal burning is less common in cities, but still popular in villages. A family I know that lives in the countryside still burn wood most of the year to heat water and cook meals, and only buy some amount of coal (I think few hundred kilos, maybe a metric ton) for heating during winter. Hell, the first location of our Hackerspace in Kraków - in the very centre of a 1M city - had only coal furnace for heating. There's a lot of old buildings in Poland.
    - thinkcontext 7y ago
      > Where do you live? What do people in the countryside there use? In the US propane, fuel oil and wood are the popular off-grid fuels. Electricity is also pretty cheap here so resistance heat is not uncommon. Heat pumps have gotten a lot better at low temps in recent years, so a lot of new construction or retrofits by the nonpoor will use them.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Heat pumps are appearing in Poland too, particularly ones meant for domestic hot water (vs. heating your home), and there are government subsidies attached to them. The people I mentioned in my example are currently considering getting such a heatpump thanks to that subsidy (it wouldn't be economical for them otherwise). Electricity isn't cheap enough here to run resistance heating unless you're desperate. I don't know anyone using propane for heating, but many people - myself currently included - use it for cooking in places that don't have utility gas connection.
  - 7y ago
agapon 7y ago
Not everyone lives in a big city.
- kmlx 7y ago
  i've lived in quite a few countries (countryside and cities), and it's the first time i read about it. i know about burning wood for heating (done that for a while), but burning coal never. you live and learn :)
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Well, coal is better than wood, but it so happens that some people in countryside have ample supply of free-ish wood :). I know some people who burn wood most of the year, and only add coal to the mix during winter.
  - chewz 7y ago
    Coal is more efficient in our winters. You can load a stove with coal and it keeps you warm all night which is not as easy with wood. It is acctually a paradox here in Poland. I live in suburbs outside of Warsaw, surounded by forrest and still sparsely populated. People are building new houses here to get out of the city and pollution. They build heatpumps (or somerhing else) but also a fireplace as a secondary heating source. Then they learn to discover that coal is cheap, accesible and more energy efficient (more convinient) in winter. As a result in winter at evenings you get smog and filthy air in suburbs worse then in the city center.

gambiting 7y ago

And also our biggest power plant in Bełchatów is burning lignite, which is probably the worst type of coal you could be burning for power generation. It looks like it's scheduled for closing from that graph? And yes, the town that I'm from has a coal mine and a heat producing unit next to it which burns coal to heat the entire town through a system of municipal hot water delivery to all apartment blocks and most private houses.

terramex 7y ago
>It looks like it's scheduled for closing from that graph? It is not, it's going to be operating for as long as they can mine enough lignite from current mine (so until around 2037). There are talks of opening new mine in Złoczew, that should support Bełchatów power plant for many years to come. Also, Opole power plant is marked on this map as closing where it was just expanded this year and there are absolutely no plans of closing it.