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While I understand where you’re coming from, I don’t agree with this sentiment. Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline. Modern cities would be compl

While I understand where you’re coming from, I don’t agree with this sentiment. Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline. Modern cities would be completely shut down without these resources, and we should treat the Internet in the same way - as a vital resource that we simply accept as present except in the most egregious or catastrophic circumstances.

jacobush 7y ago
Won’t work in total war. Internet will be sabotaged and maybe also power plants.
tlb 7y ago
In many previous conflicts, electricity and gasoline were cut off or in short supply. Being able to keep infrastructure running without them was an important part of the war effort. Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India, but presumably some individuals did.
- qazpot 7y ago
  > Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India This is like saying Maine is not independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with USA.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline You can store both in dunks and batteries. If someone invents a way to bottle spare internet, that's the next unicorn for sure :)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jefftk 7y ago
  Satellite internet, with batteries or a generator, works even when local conflict shuts down pretty much everything else.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    Not bad. Thanks!
  - wtmt 7y ago
    Satellite Internet access would also be shutdown in a scenario like this, since it would be the government permitting or denying who operates a satellite to provide such services and the associated spectrum used...unless other countries or individuals are able to put up satellites to help people in oppressive regimes (slightly similar to the concept of Tor). Is there something like this? Perhaps neighboring countries that do not agree with the regime's decisions (like Pakistan in this case) could help. India demonstrated the ability to bomb low orbit satellites a few months ago. With the current regime showing no hesitation to bring two nuclear countries close to a war, all bets are off for such efforts by Pakistan.
    - jefftk 7y ago
      Blocking satellites is much harder than shutting off the internet by ordering the telcos to. Jamming is possible, but takes a large commitment. Destroying satellites from unaligned countries is an even larger commitment, and not a great plan if you want to keep them unaligned. In practice satellite very often works when nothing else does.
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      Shooting down foreign satellites is an act of war, and very few countries have that capability. Iridium is an existing satellite phone system that will technically work anywhere on the planet. It won't complete calls to certain countries, and they warn that the phone might get confiscated in a few others: https://globalcomsatphone.com/support7/ https://globalcomsatphone.com/support7/
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
- qazpot 7y ago
  > If someone invents a way to bottle spare internet, that's the next unicorn for sure Internet's architecture is already like this (See Alan Kay). You can create your own local networks, Problem is the centralized applications built on top of it.
Spooky23 7y ago
Internet is far more critical than gasoline or even electricity. Everything is IP based, and processes for just about everything are dependent on some random service in AWS. In a significant civil unrest event, it would be very feasible for a prepared party to create widespread disruption on a regional level.
- twerkinggumby 7y ago
  Tell me: how do you get the internet without electricity?
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    The relevance of electricity depends on the scope. Most institutions have continuity plans that allow them to function, perhaps in a degraded state, with widespread power failures. Hospitals will be functioning, cellular towers will be running, first responders will function and at least basic commerce can carry on. That “limp along” period ranges from days to weeks. There are also different types of electrical outages. A hurricane or earthquake can wipe out infrastructure. Civil unrest may cause disruption. Open warfare will cause more strategic disruption and limit restoration.
  - jarfil 7y ago
    With enough IoT, you may not be able to get electricity without the internet either.

jacobush 7y ago

Won’t work in total war. Internet will be sabotaged and maybe also power plants.

tlb 7y ago

In many previous conflicts, electricity and gasoline were cut off or in short supply. Being able to keep infrastructure running without them was an important part of the war effort. Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India, but presumably some individuals did.

qazpot 7y ago
> Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India This is like saying Maine is not independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with USA.

BurningFrog 7y ago

> Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline You can store both in dunks and batteries. If someone invents a way to bottle spare internet, that's the next unicorn for sure :)

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jefftk 7y ago
Satellite internet, with batteries or a generator, works even when local conflict shuts down pretty much everything else.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  Not bad. Thanks!
- wtmt 7y ago
  Satellite Internet access would also be shutdown in a scenario like this, since it would be the government permitting or denying who operates a satellite to provide such services and the associated spectrum used...unless other countries or individuals are able to put up satellites to help people in oppressive regimes (slightly similar to the concept of Tor). Is there something like this? Perhaps neighboring countries that do not agree with the regime's decisions (like Pakistan in this case) could help. India demonstrated the ability to bomb low orbit satellites a few months ago. With the current regime showing no hesitation to bring two nuclear countries close to a war, all bets are off for such efforts by Pakistan.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Blocking satellites is much harder than shutting off the internet by ordering the telcos to. Jamming is possible, but takes a large commitment. Destroying satellites from unaligned countries is an even larger commitment, and not a great plan if you want to keep them unaligned. In practice satellite very often works when nothing else does.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    Shooting down foreign satellites is an act of war, and very few countries have that capability. Iridium is an existing satellite phone system that will technically work anywhere on the planet. It won't complete calls to certain countries, and they warn that the phone might get confiscated in a few others: https://globalcomsatphone.com/support7/ https://globalcomsatphone.com/support7/
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
qazpot 7y ago
> If someone invents a way to bottle spare internet, that's the next unicorn for sure Internet's architecture is already like this (See Alan Kay). You can create your own local networks, Problem is the centralized applications built on top of it.

Spooky23 7y ago

Internet is far more critical than gasoline or even electricity. Everything is IP based, and processes for just about everything are dependent on some random service in AWS. In a significant civil unrest event, it would be very feasible for a prepared party to create widespread disruption on a regional level.

twerkinggumby 7y ago
Tell me: how do you get the internet without electricity?
- Spooky23 7y ago
  The relevance of electricity depends on the scope. Most institutions have continuity plans that allow them to function, perhaps in a degraded state, with widespread power failures. Hospitals will be functioning, cellular towers will be running, first responders will function and at least basic commerce can carry on. That “limp along” period ranges from days to weeks. There are also different types of electrical outages. A hurricane or earthquake can wipe out infrastructure. Civil unrest may cause disruption. Open warfare will cause more strategic disruption and limit restoration.
- jarfil 7y ago
  With enough IoT, you may not be able to get electricity without the internet either.