4 ms·

To know more about the referendum read this -- See what Para 5 says. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1949v06/d1171 https://history.state.gov/

To know more about the referendum read this -- See what Para 5 says. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1949v06/d1171 https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1949v06/d1...

owaislone 7y ago
Is this the official position of Indian Government right now? I don't think so. When was the last time India said they are eager or even open to holding a plebiscite if Pakistan military vacated it's part of Kashmir? AFAIR, India has always said Kashmir is it's internal matter and integral part and they proved it by literally annexing it 10 days ago. So no, Indian Government does not believe in paragraph five at all or any of the UN resolutions passed on Kashmir. If it did, instead of unilaterally "deleting" the Kashmiri parliament and constitution, it would have held talks with Pakistan about how to hold the referendum. Also, if you cite UN sources then you must also agree with the reports about human rights violations in Kashmir by the UN and organizations like Amnesty International, right? If so, then you shouldn't be justifying what is happening right now but opposing it as that is the position of the UN. Otherwise you are just selectively citing things that re-affirm your point of view.
- la12 7y ago
  Can you just answer one question? Do you honestly believe that Kashmir would in reality ever exist as an independent country when it is such a strategic piece of land between 3 nuclear powers? If not, Pakistan's argument about "Independence" of Kashmir is rendered moot because it is a roundabout way of annexing Kashmir for itself. If we understand the above, the status quo of Kashmir with India doesn't seem so bad for Kashmiri minorities who have been systematically driven out/converted/executed in the PoK region right from the time of Pakistani occupation. And these here are the cold hard facts instead of waxing hypothetically.
  - owaislone 7y ago
    I've been hearing this for last 3 decades and this is so patronizing. "Kashmiris don't know whats best for them so we'll rule them instead, because obviously they are incapable of Governing themselves". That is not for India or Pakistan to decide. Stop patronizing an entire people. 16 million of them.
- kobiguru 7y ago
  Two factual errors 1. Amnesty International is not a UN organisation. 2. India didn't Annex Kashmir, it has been an Indian state since independence. 3. Kashmir special status was given and revocation according to the Indian constitution. 4. I cited the oldest communique from a reliable source. Stop shifting goal post when you can't argue the point.
  - owaislone 7y ago
    > 1. Amnesty International is not a UN organisation. I never claimed it was. > 2. India didn't Annex Kashmir, it has been an Indian state since independence. > 3. Kashmir special status was given and revocation according to the Indian constitution. India literally annexed Kashmir 11 days ago by sheer military force. It unilaterally torn up the legal instrument on the basis of which Kashmir's Maharaja joined the Indian Union. Literally in one move nullified the constitution of Kashmir and their parliament without even consulting the Kashmiri parliament or people. India's own politicians, activists, journalists and Kashmiri Pandits have cited the move as illegal and unconstitutional. > 4. I cited the oldest communique from a reliable source. And I did not deny that source. I just pointed out that Indian Government does not actually abide by what you pointed out.

To know more about the referendum read this -- See what Para 5 says. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1949v06/d1171 https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1949v06/d1...

owaislone 7y ago

Is this the official position of Indian Government right now? I don't think so. When was the last time India said they are eager or even open to holding a plebiscite if Pakistan military vacated it's part of Kashmir? AFAIR, India has always said Kashmir is it's internal matter and integral part and they proved it by literally annexing it 10 days ago. So no, Indian Government does not believe in paragraph five at all or any of the UN resolutions passed on Kashmir. If it did, instead of unilaterally "deleting" the Kashmiri parliament and constitution, it would have held talks with Pakistan about how to hold the referendum. Also, if you cite UN sources then you must also agree with the reports about human rights violations in Kashmir by the UN and organizations like Amnesty International, right? If so, then you shouldn't be justifying what is happening right now but opposing it as that is the position of the UN. Otherwise you are just selectively citing things that re-affirm your point of view.

la12 7y ago
Can you just answer one question? Do you honestly believe that Kashmir would in reality ever exist as an independent country when it is such a strategic piece of land between 3 nuclear powers? If not, Pakistan's argument about "Independence" of Kashmir is rendered moot because it is a roundabout way of annexing Kashmir for itself. If we understand the above, the status quo of Kashmir with India doesn't seem so bad for Kashmiri minorities who have been systematically driven out/converted/executed in the PoK region right from the time of Pakistani occupation. And these here are the cold hard facts instead of waxing hypothetically.
- owaislone 7y ago
  I've been hearing this for last 3 decades and this is so patronizing. "Kashmiris don't know whats best for them so we'll rule them instead, because obviously they are incapable of Governing themselves". That is not for India or Pakistan to decide. Stop patronizing an entire people. 16 million of them.
kobiguru 7y ago
Two factual errors 1. Amnesty International is not a UN organisation. 2. India didn't Annex Kashmir, it has been an Indian state since independence. 3. Kashmir special status was given and revocation according to the Indian constitution. 4. I cited the oldest communique from a reliable source. Stop shifting goal post when you can't argue the point.
- owaislone 7y ago
  > 1. Amnesty International is not a UN organisation. I never claimed it was. > 2. India didn't Annex Kashmir, it has been an Indian state since independence. > 3. Kashmir special status was given and revocation according to the Indian constitution. India literally annexed Kashmir 11 days ago by sheer military force. It unilaterally torn up the legal instrument on the basis of which Kashmir's Maharaja joined the Indian Union. Literally in one move nullified the constitution of Kashmir and their parliament without even consulting the Kashmiri parliament or people. India's own politicians, activists, journalists and Kashmiri Pandits have cited the move as illegal and unconstitutional. > 4. I cited the oldest communique from a reliable source. And I did not deny that source. I just pointed out that Indian Government does not actually abide by what you pointed out.