6 ms·

> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indi

by Arun2009 7y ago

> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully integrated into India once and for all. They also consider the indecision about Kashmir's status in India as being a prime cause for terrorism in that region. Kicking the muslims has very little to do with it. Whether this step will backfire remains to be seen. Indians will have to ask some very tough questions about what kind of nation they want India to be, and whether the vision they come up with will be viable at all given the nature of the Indian society.

iamshs 7y ago
You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majority region. And BJP considers, Muslims and Christians as invaders and pests. This manifesto point is just utter bunkum to placate their Hindu Nationalistic base since 1950s, they finally got to fulfill it since they have the numbers and money power now. For the first time since India gained independence.
- eklavya 7y ago
  “Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan”, this takes Hindu as identity like American and not a religion. “When there are other regions ...”, no, laws passed by the parliament were applicable everywhere except in Kashmir. So you had gems like child marriage not outlawed. It’s lazy and biased journalism to just label them Hindu nationalists and portray them like some sort of evil overlords. India for centuries has been the most inclusive place in the world. Let’s not try and paint the majority as some kind of a clan of idiot oppressors.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    But I am being told above that India is a secular democracy? So how come India wants a religion as an identity? Keeping that aside though: 1. What is Hindu culture? Answer: It is a way to subjugate and bulldoze minorities and their culture. Hence the insidious name, acceptable to the majority and any opposition instantly termed as anti-Hindus. There is no need for such a divisive slogan when Indian culture already exists. It intentinally conflates Indian culture with made-up term 'Hindu culture'. 2. Why is the slogan being given by a Hindu Nationalist party? Answer: Hindu religion is their raison d'etre. They carry out their activities with justification as being benefitting Hindus solely. 3. Why does the slogan involve similar tones and reach as, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"? Fact: Members of this Hindu nationalist party (B.S. Moonje) met Mussolini and transported same bullshit to India. Golwalkar openly admired Hitler. These are people in power in India presently. 4. Why are the Indian cities names given by Muslim rulers being changed on lines of Hindu religious basis? Example: Allahabad has been changed to Pragyaraj, because Allah-abad is deemed as a Muslim name. Answer: Subjugation on religious lines to consolidate majority. 5. Try going to North East India without a special entry pass. Doesn't matter if you are India, you cannot certain North-East states enter without an Inner Line permit. 6. You cannot buy real estate in certain Indian states, like Himachal Pradesh. Doesn't matter if you are Indian or not. 7. They are Hindu Nationalists because they are using Hindu religion to consolidate majority, and are carrying out actions that they have wanted since independence. Hindu Nationalists killed Gandhi and were outlawed afterwards. 8. Let's not paint whole nation or its government as tolerant. In recent history, India has supported several terrorist movements in other nations.
    - eklavya 7y ago
      Citations needed!! Citations needed!! 1. What is Hindu culture? Answer: A very ancient inclusive and compassionate culture. Even the name hindu was given by Persians/Arabs. 2. Why is the slogan being given by a Hindu Nationalist party? The slogan was given to unify the nation and recognise the rich culture and heritage. 3. Why does the slogan involve similar tones and reach as, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"? Stop with the nonsense please. I have even seen people draw equivalence like, Swastika-Nazi, Swastika-Hindu, Hindu-Nazi. 4. Why are the Indian cities names given by Muslim rulers being changed on lines of Hindu religious basis? Why should a culture of thousands of years not roll back to the actual names for places which were changed by invaders? What has religion got to do with it? Should we also praise the queen? 5. Try going to North East India without a special entry pass. Having booked hotel tickets all over north east for my parent's visits, I would say please stop with your propaganda. 6. You cannot buy real estate in certain Indian states, like Himachal Pradesh. Unless you have been living there for some time. In Kashmir people who have been living for more than even 50 years didn't have voting and property rights. 7. They are Hindu Nationalists because they are using Hindu religion to consolidate majority, and are carrying out actions that they have wanted since independence. Hindu Nationalists killed Gandhi and were outlawed afterwards. I am a Hindu and I am a nationalist. I don't want to kill people or put them under oppressive regimes like sharia. Being a hindu makes people evil? Is that your deciding criterion? 8. Let's not paint whole nation or its government as tolerant. In recent history, India has supported several terrorist movements in other nations. Are you confusing India with Pakistan?
- mycall 7y ago
  When I look at "What are the Most Spoken Languages in the World?"[0], I see so many in or around India, I can understand the need for unification of languages. [0] https://www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages https://www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Unification of languages movement in India has an incredibly bitter experience for minorities. Just one example, a Hindu Nationalist group in Punjab opposed Punjabi as a language of Punjab, and if not acceptable, as a compromise they wanted Punjabi to be written in Devnagri, same script as that of Hindi. Same group led a very successful campaign in 1960s for Punjabi Hindus to change their mother tongue to Hindi instead of Punjabi in national census. They opposed Punjabi on religious lines. Let's not bulldoze diversity with the sole aim to unify. The consequences are disastrous.
- kbad1000 7y ago
  That's pure lies and propaganda. The brutal atrocities in past by invaders should not be forgiven, however, this doesn't mean to hate the descendents. It is BJP which abolished Tripple Talaq, it is BJP which decriminalized homosexuality (Congress did not because it would hurt their voter base of Muslims), it is BJP, which is giving benefits on the basis of income, etc. Kashmir was and is integral part of India and it's culture. While we are on this no news outlets dared to talk about the genocide of thousands of Hindus, Buddhists and Suffis in Kashmir since 1989 by the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorists. If one comes on the ground instead of reading propaganda from news outlets dominated by Hinduphobic pessimists, it'll be better. And to be clear NYT, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Bloomberg and even DW have anti-India sentiments because of lobbying and the vested interests. It is the Hindu philosophy which is the most inclusive and that is why India was and is most diverse nation on the planet and not any Western nation.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    'And to be clear NYT, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Bloomberg and even DW have anti-India sentiments because of lobbying and the vested interests.' Hmmm vested interests going against India. My sympathies. 'It is the Hindu philosophy which is the most inclusive and that is why India was and is most diverse nation on the planet and not any Western nation.' Your fragility is showing.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  > You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP's top leadership includes Modi, Amit Shah, Nirmala Sitaraman, Venkaiah Naidu, Nitin Gadkari etc. that come from non-Hindi states. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

iamshs 7y ago

You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majority region. And BJP considers, Muslims and Christians as invaders and pests. This manifesto point is just utter bunkum to placate their Hindu Nationalistic base since 1950s, they finally got to fulfill it since they have the numbers and money power now. For the first time since India gained independence.

eklavya 7y ago
“Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan”, this takes Hindu as identity like American and not a religion. “When there are other regions ...”, no, laws passed by the parliament were applicable everywhere except in Kashmir. So you had gems like child marriage not outlawed. It’s lazy and biased journalism to just label them Hindu nationalists and portray them like some sort of evil overlords. India for centuries has been the most inclusive place in the world. Let’s not try and paint the majority as some kind of a clan of idiot oppressors.
- iamshs 7y ago
  But I am being told above that India is a secular democracy? So how come India wants a religion as an identity? Keeping that aside though: 1. What is Hindu culture? Answer: It is a way to subjugate and bulldoze minorities and their culture. Hence the insidious name, acceptable to the majority and any opposition instantly termed as anti-Hindus. There is no need for such a divisive slogan when Indian culture already exists. It intentinally conflates Indian culture with made-up term 'Hindu culture'. 2. Why is the slogan being given by a Hindu Nationalist party? Answer: Hindu religion is their raison d'etre. They carry out their activities with justification as being benefitting Hindus solely. 3. Why does the slogan involve similar tones and reach as, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"? Fact: Members of this Hindu nationalist party (B.S. Moonje) met Mussolini and transported same bullshit to India. Golwalkar openly admired Hitler. These are people in power in India presently. 4. Why are the Indian cities names given by Muslim rulers being changed on lines of Hindu religious basis? Example: Allahabad has been changed to Pragyaraj, because Allah-abad is deemed as a Muslim name. Answer: Subjugation on religious lines to consolidate majority. 5. Try going to North East India without a special entry pass. Doesn't matter if you are India, you cannot certain North-East states enter without an Inner Line permit. 6. You cannot buy real estate in certain Indian states, like Himachal Pradesh. Doesn't matter if you are Indian or not. 7. They are Hindu Nationalists because they are using Hindu religion to consolidate majority, and are carrying out actions that they have wanted since independence. Hindu Nationalists killed Gandhi and were outlawed afterwards. 8. Let's not paint whole nation or its government as tolerant. In recent history, India has supported several terrorist movements in other nations.
  - eklavya 7y ago
    Citations needed!! Citations needed!! 1. What is Hindu culture? Answer: A very ancient inclusive and compassionate culture. Even the name hindu was given by Persians/Arabs. 2. Why is the slogan being given by a Hindu Nationalist party? The slogan was given to unify the nation and recognise the rich culture and heritage. 3. Why does the slogan involve similar tones and reach as, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"? Stop with the nonsense please. I have even seen people draw equivalence like, Swastika-Nazi, Swastika-Hindu, Hindu-Nazi. 4. Why are the Indian cities names given by Muslim rulers being changed on lines of Hindu religious basis? Why should a culture of thousands of years not roll back to the actual names for places which were changed by invaders? What has religion got to do with it? Should we also praise the queen? 5. Try going to North East India without a special entry pass. Having booked hotel tickets all over north east for my parent's visits, I would say please stop with your propaganda. 6. You cannot buy real estate in certain Indian states, like Himachal Pradesh. Unless you have been living there for some time. In Kashmir people who have been living for more than even 50 years didn't have voting and property rights. 7. They are Hindu Nationalists because they are using Hindu religion to consolidate majority, and are carrying out actions that they have wanted since independence. Hindu Nationalists killed Gandhi and were outlawed afterwards. I am a Hindu and I am a nationalist. I don't want to kill people or put them under oppressive regimes like sharia. Being a hindu makes people evil? Is that your deciding criterion? 8. Let's not paint whole nation or its government as tolerant. In recent history, India has supported several terrorist movements in other nations. Are you confusing India with Pakistan?
mycall 7y ago
When I look at "What are the Most Spoken Languages in the World?"[0], I see so many in or around India, I can understand the need for unification of languages. [0] https://www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages https://www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages
- iamshs 7y ago
  Unification of languages movement in India has an incredibly bitter experience for minorities. Just one example, a Hindu Nationalist group in Punjab opposed Punjabi as a language of Punjab, and if not acceptable, as a compromise they wanted Punjabi to be written in Devnagri, same script as that of Hindi. Same group led a very successful campaign in 1960s for Punjabi Hindus to change their mother tongue to Hindi instead of Punjabi in national census. They opposed Punjabi on religious lines. Let's not bulldoze diversity with the sole aim to unify. The consequences are disastrous.
kbad1000 7y ago
That's pure lies and propaganda. The brutal atrocities in past by invaders should not be forgiven, however, this doesn't mean to hate the descendents. It is BJP which abolished Tripple Talaq, it is BJP which decriminalized homosexuality (Congress did not because it would hurt their voter base of Muslims), it is BJP, which is giving benefits on the basis of income, etc. Kashmir was and is integral part of India and it's culture. While we are on this no news outlets dared to talk about the genocide of thousands of Hindus, Buddhists and Suffis in Kashmir since 1989 by the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorists. If one comes on the ground instead of reading propaganda from news outlets dominated by Hinduphobic pessimists, it'll be better. And to be clear NYT, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Bloomberg and even DW have anti-India sentiments because of lobbying and the vested interests. It is the Hindu philosophy which is the most inclusive and that is why India was and is most diverse nation on the planet and not any Western nation.
- iamshs 7y ago
  'And to be clear NYT, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Bloomberg and even DW have anti-India sentiments because of lobbying and the vested interests.' Hmmm vested interests going against India. My sympathies. 'It is the Hindu philosophy which is the most inclusive and that is why India was and is most diverse nation on the planet and not any Western nation.' Your fragility is showing.
sbmthakur 7y ago
> You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP's top leadership includes Modi, Amit Shah, Nirmala Sitaraman, Venkaiah Naidu, Nitin Gadkari etc. that come from non-Hindi states. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.