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India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

200 points by ETHisso2017 7y ago

amriksohata 7y ago
The shutdown is because 10% of the population of Indian Kashmir is hardcore wahabi sunni and holding the rest of it to ransom. People forget the 45% non muslim population suffering and the rest muslim population who dont turn up to these stone pelting protests.
statguy 7y ago
I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprising?
- iamshs 7y ago
  Absolute repeat of what happened in 1984 against Sikhs in Punjab. Play by Play. This is just the start of worse for Kashmir unfortunately. The young ones are in for a brutal ride especially. And no one will listen, as they are not Upper caste Hindus.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    This is why Amarinder Singh was first to condemn it
    - mandeepj 7y ago
      Amarinder is from opposition party so he had to condemn it
      - selimthegrim 7y ago
        Are people not allowed to have opinions independent of their party now? There were plenty of Congresspeople who broke ranks and supported it. The opposition LS whips doing so is sad and frightening.
        sbmthakur 7y ago
        > The opposition LS whips doing so is sad and frightening. Doesn't this comment contrast your first statement.
        selimthegrim 7y ago
        No it just means I don’t like it.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Amarinder Singh has not condemned Indian communication lockdown or curfew and ensuing brutalities, he only condemned breaking of state into two Union Territories in an unconstitutional way. He is the same guy who supported Indian Army when they tied an innocent Kashmiri in front of a jeep and paraded him into town. His approach is very wily.
  - eklavya 7y ago
    How are sikhs worse in Punjab now? The 1984 riots were perpetrated by the same people who are opposing this move.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Indian Army's official publication, Baatcheet, asked for "Sikhs to be reported to authorities as they are dangerous criminals" in 1990. After such a blanket generalisation, Sikhs were indeed reported to authorities, and killed extra-judiciously. Mothers came to know what happened to their sons through newspapers replete with a photo of a cop getting bounty alongside the article branding her son as a militant. Just last month, 3 policemen were convicted of one such extrajudicial killing, and they were all pardoned by Punjab governor. Same governor attended a convocation ceremony where a student handed him a letter protesting the pardon of criminals, and the student was instead issued a show-cause notice of why a guest was humiliated. So nothing, it's all hunky dory in Punjab right now. BTW, this is a classic Hindu Nationalist propaganda move. Justify past excesses, whitewash them by saying everything is pleasant in the present. Also, use an ad-hominem and paint the other as an opponent instantly.
      - eklavya 7y ago
        Wow, you are on hyper drive in the entire thread. When what how did you come to the conclusions from my post? What exactly made me a propagandist? You have got to be kidding with Sikh regiment being one of the most valiant branches of Indian Army and a really high number of Indian Army soldiers per capita from Punjab. There was Pakistan sponsored terrorism in Punjab, there isn't anymore. Also citation needed for everything you said.
        iamshs 7y ago
        I am countering propaganda, because this is personal for me. I cannot see an entire people silenced just because they are minorities, to be used to please the majority. And Sikh regiment officers and privates mutinied too when they heard of Indian Army attack on Darbar Sahib, Amritsar (Sikh Golden temple). India changed recruitment policies for these regiments soon after. Source: Understanding India's Counter-Rebellion Strategies during the Punjab Crisis - Philip Hultquist See in all the glory how Indian Government victimized Sikhs, and blatantly Indian Army asked for Sikhs to be reported to authorities, as they are dangerous people who commit arson and murder.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    I don't see any parallel. Khalistani separatism happened because Bhindranwale was propped by the Congress party to gain electoral giains. Who do you think the BJP has propped up now?
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Hindu Nationalist, BJP is quelling democracy the same exact way. Minorities curfewed and muted to satisfy lust of majority. Nobody allowed to protest, and children as young as 11 jailed without charges. Same exact type of extra-judicial killings and molestation of women. Worse, state controlled India media being used as a weapon to justify all the excesses to the Indian masses. Manufacturing consent. It don't matter you cannot get Asthma medicine or Insulin, but believe is this all will help you in the end. What a democracy to look up to.
      - sbmthakur 7y ago
        > Hindu Nationalist, BJP is quelling democracy the same exact way. Minorities curfewed and muted to satisfy lust of majority. Minorities are not curfew anywhere in India. In Kashmir, Muslims are in majority. > Nobody allowed to protest, and children as young as 11 jailed without charges. Same exact type of extra-judicial killings and molestation of women. I don't recall that happening after the curfew was put in place. Could you share some news reports? > Worse, state controlled India media being used as a weapon to justify all the excesses to the Indian masses. Manufacturing consent. I haven't seen DD News justifying anything. They're just reporting what they're seeing.
- kobiguru 7y ago
  Preventative measures are necessary for the kind of thing it can spark. The change is not like demonetisation rather a well thought and long-held demand of the present government. It has been there in the election manifesto since they started publishing election manifesto. The new york times is entitled to its view on how India's elected government ought to run the country but that does not mean the government is going to forgo one of THE demands of the party founders. The other thing that is ignored is that for seventy years Kashmir has gotten the biggest share of the central government's outlays for states and they have nothing to show for. Doing the same thing expecting a different result is bad in any environment. I am not sure if this will work or not but what I am sure is that the previous status quo did not work. Moreover, how long would the entire state's ambition be held hostage because of an intolerant minority in four districts in the Kashmir valley? Edit: "Intorelent Minority" comes from Taleb's essay/book on the skin in the game here is the link here is what I meant by Intorelant minority. I am sorry if It came as bigoted but I would call any small group of people this https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
  - owaislone 7y ago
    Here come the apologists. How can such a step be justified when the 12 million people did not vote for the said election manifesto? It's like saying UK is justified in annexing all of Ireland because people in England voted for it.
    - tech_dreamer 7y ago
      If you are not aware please read the following article to get a complete picture - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus
      - iamshs 7y ago
        Oh god, Wikipedia has been taken over. Just look at the language and sources. All actions by India have been sugar coated with flowery language. Governor’s rule and Marshall Law is written as, “This allowed Governor Jagmohan to rule directly”. Not mentioning the fact that he dismissed a democratically elected government on a ruse.
- Arun2009 7y ago
  > I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully integrated into India once and for all. They also consider the indecision about Kashmir's status in India as being a prime cause for terrorism in that region. Kicking the muslims has very little to do with it. Whether this step will backfire remains to be seen. Indians will have to ask some very tough questions about what kind of nation they want India to be, and whether the vision they come up with will be viable at all given the nature of the Indian society.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majority region. And BJP considers, Muslims and Christians as invaders and pests. This manifesto point is just utter bunkum to placate their Hindu Nationalistic base since 1950s, they finally got to fulfill it since they have the numbers and money power now. For the first time since India gained independence.
    - eklavya 7y ago
      “Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan”, this takes Hindu as identity like American and not a religion. “When there are other regions ...”, no, laws passed by the parliament were applicable everywhere except in Kashmir. So you had gems like child marriage not outlawed. It’s lazy and biased journalism to just label them Hindu nationalists and portray them like some sort of evil overlords. India for centuries has been the most inclusive place in the world. Let’s not try and paint the majority as some kind of a clan of idiot oppressors.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- amalag 7y ago
  I think its pretty clear you pulled that out of your fertile imagination.
- thanks1banks2 7y ago
  India is a secular state. We treat all religions with equal respect. This is in the constitution. This issue is an internal matter following due process within our parliamentary framework.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    If India is so secular why is there a tax law called Hindu Undivided Family or HUF, which Muslims cannot use to reduce their taxable income? How can a damn tax law be applicable on basis of religion? If it is so secular then why does Indian Constitution term Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs under Hindu religion umbrella. Since when is it for the constitution to define religions? If India is so secular than why does it ban beef, sacred animal only to Hindus? If it is so secular then why does it welcome Hindu refugees from Pakistan and expels Muslim Rohingya refugees?
    - la12 7y ago
      I'm not sure why you're avoiding talking about the role of Pakistan in creating the whole conflict in Kashmir. Pakistan invented out of the whole cloth an armed struggle aspect to the Kashmir situation. It's extremely convenient on your part to talk pointwise all the Pakistani talking points and yet avoid talking about the 90% causative factor in this entire mess.
    - vakataka 7y ago
      FYI, Indian Muslims have their own personal law while the rest of the population follows uniform civil code. They get Hajj subsidies and other perks that no other community gets. As for taking refugees, a country can deny entry based on any number of reasons. In 2018, the number of refugees taken in by the US has gone down. That doesn't mean US is less secular. I agree Indian constitution is not the most secular but it definitely is not anti-minority.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?
- cscurmudgeon 7y ago
  I can't understand how anyone who stands for gender equality and minority rights can support Kashmir being autonomous. This move by the Indian government is objectively good for minorities (Christians, Hindus, Jains etc) and women in the state. https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fundamental-rights-kashmir-constitution-feminists-feminism-kashmir-kashmiri-hindus-dalits-pakistani-hindu-refugees-kashmiri-sikhs-women-s-rights/story/1/30216.html https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fu... Kashmir had 70 years to rectify this after Independence but to chose to double down on ethnic cleansing of minorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Because gender equality and minority rights points are being used as a greenhorn to subjugate an entire minority. Article 370 giving them autonomy is gone, and not only their autonomy is gone but the state has been degraded as a Union Territory directly under Federal control. A law which has been abrogated by locking down 10 Million people, and not allowing them the right to protest. I think we all know why the law has been forced in.
    - sbmthakur 7y ago
      Kashmir wasn't exactly a peaceful paradise before the abrogation of the article. Stone pelting was a regular affair and long term curfew has been enforced previously in 2008 and after Burhan Wani's death. The Federal Government has to ensure security of the people to prevent bloodshed.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        Ah, security of people trope. Good to know so much security has been ensured 10 million people are caged.
        sbmthakur 7y ago
        It might be a trope for you, but not for the people who routinely get gunned down by Pakistan backed terrorists and incur significant bloodshed in the process.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  That's false. Demonization is not relevant to any of this. Article 370 was a temporary provision in the Constitution. It's removal was on BJP's agenda since 80s. India's founding founders like B.R. Ambedkar were also somewhat against having seperate set of rules for J&K. The most likely reason for it's removal is that Article 370 still protected regressive practices like Triple Talaq and Child marriage and created a beaurocratic roadblock in implementation of Federal Government schemes(like reservation). The claim that this was done to subvert state's Muslim majority doesn't hold merit. India has states like Punjab, Nagaland and Mizoram which don't have Hindu majority and are still doing well.
saagarjha 7y ago
Shutting down the internet in an effort to "keep the peace" is really dystopian: how do Indian citizens stand for it?
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
  Any country that has been paying attention in recent years knows that the internet allows the opposition to organize, coordinate, and recruit effectively. The US and China deal with this by ensuring they have leverage over the platforms that people use to communicate. Other countries that do not have this leverage, have to resort to shutting down the internet in areas of unrest.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Yes, but presumably people have a say in the laws that let this happen?
  - rqs 7y ago
    You know what, that "resort to" will probably cause more uprising. Some people maybe don't care about what ever is happening outside, but now they cannot connect to Steam anymore. China was disconnected Xinjiang from the network in the past. During that time, some Xinjiangers traveled to neighboring province so they can take care their business in some online game. I guess they were the people who received the most piss from the disconnect, not those "uprising organizers".
  - mandeepj 7y ago
    > The US and China deal with this by ensuring they have leverage over the platforms that people use to communicate. By leverage, you mean the Prism project in USA?
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  Majority support annexing of the region
  - saagarjha 7y ago
pipingdog 7y ago
> Jammu and Kashmir, an area of 12.5 million people that is claimed by both India and Pakistan It would seem that India has the more practically demonstrable claim.
- eschulz 7y ago
  Would your opinion lead you to believe that India should act quickly and remedy the unacceptable state of affairs in which the residents find themselves?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
40acres 7y ago
At what point is a region so distinct from the state in which it resides that the best course of action would be secession? When I read the news I see conflicts in integration every where: Hong Kong, Kashmir, Kurdish Syria / Turkey. My general feeling is that due to a number of factors (imperialism, war, etc.) that our current global map just doesn't reflect the reality of international relations, unfortunately border disputes are rarely resolved peacefully...
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I think the reality is that while politicians draw borders, and governments like them not to move, people move, ideals change, cultures spread and any region eventually doesn't match its lines on a map. Sometimes it's messy (Yugoslav Wars), sometimes it's more civil (Virginia/West Virginia). But change happens. It's how we react and manage that change that helps define us as a people.
- ajross 7y ago
  Balkanization has been tried, you know. Thousands of times. That doesn't work so well either. It sounds glib and naive, but at the end of the day the path to peace is just for people to stop fighting, forgive past sins and learn to live with each other. And generally that happens only after they get wealthy. Which makes shutting down core civil infrastructure deeply counterproductive.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hos234 7y ago
  Well India has 20-30 odd states that are each, as distinct as countries in Europe. So answers to your questions lie in understanding how they have stayed integrated inspite of all the differences.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
>Kashmir, an area of 12.5 million people that is claimed by both India and Pakistan and has long been a source of tension. There is also a portion of the area that is claimed by China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir#/media/File:Kashmir_region_2004.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir#/media/File:...
- desi_ninja 7y ago
  Given to China by Pakistan who didn't have right to it in the first place as per UN
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Shakshagam valley has been ceded to China by Pakistan as it not was contiguous territory, so Pakistan got Brownie points. Aksai Chin was not given by Pakistan to China.
adpirz 7y ago
Am Kashmiri. Was born there. Have family there. My parents were born and raised there. This is scary even for a region marked by persistent curfews, border clashes between two nuclear powers, and an ongoing series of conflicts between insurgents and the Indian Army. We have extended family from whom we haven’t heard any news since this went into effect. It’s all just anxious waiting. What could possibly be the endgame from this unless you’re trying to actively foment rebellion? How can this have any widespread support?
- tlb 7y ago
  What's the status of other forms of communication, like postal mail or shortwave radio?
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Postal Mail is not available for the region ‘until further orders’.
  - owaislone 7y ago
    Mail has been banned as well. Cable TV was banned according to initial reports but recent reports say cable TV is now allowed. No idea about radio stations.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Why didn’t PDP grant permanent residency to the Sikh and Hindu refugees in Jammu from Poonch, Rawalakot, etc? No one is saying they would have gratefully voted for them but BJP talking point would have gone. Did they think they would demand the assembly seats from Muzaffarabad, Bagh etc?
sremani 7y ago
NYT forgot something, let me add new information - Kashmir Valley is one the few places in post-partition India where successful ETHNIC CLEANSING of local minorities (Hindus) took place. You reap what you sow. You kicked out real Kashmiris for the sin of being Hindus. Look at their slogan... Azadi ka matlab kya ? La ila illila.. So, if your not muslim you have no place in Kashmir or its Nationalist movement. No wonder, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist are unequivocal about their support of Indian action.
godelmachine 7y ago
Why hasn’t this been flagged yet? This post violates all guidelines of HackerNews.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Well, it mentions an internet shutdown. I'd say that makes it better than the average article about the situation in Kashmir.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Because the article is actually a pretty interesting look at how reliant the world has become on the internet. “I don’t know when to sleep, when to wake up, what to do with my life,” he said during a rare foray outside on Monday evening for Eid al-Adha, the holiest festival in Islam. “There is no life without internet, even in Kashmir.”
  - kappi 7y ago
    this link violates all the guidelines of hackernews...i recommend taking it down.. it is a political hit job hinduphobic article thinly disguised as internet shutdown news.
reaperducer 7y ago
Shopkeepers said that vital supplies like insulin and baby food, which they typically ordered online, were running out. Cash was scarce, as metal shutters covered the doors and windows of banks and A.T.M.s, which relied on the internet for every transaction. Doctors said they could not communicate with their patients. While nobody expects a war in their city, it's yet another example of why none of us should rely on the internet as our sole means of doing anything. Imagine a city where cashless transactions were the norm. Then imagine some political group (internal or external) decides to cut off the internet to that city.
- SoylentOrange 7y ago
  While I understand where you’re coming from, I don’t agree with this sentiment. Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline. Modern cities would be completely shut down without these resources, and we should treat the Internet in the same way - as a vital resource that we simply accept as present except in the most egregious or catastrophic circumstances.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    Won’t work in total war. Internet will be sabotaged and maybe also power plants.
  - tlb 7y ago
    In many previous conflicts, electricity and gasoline were cut off or in short supply. Being able to keep infrastructure running without them was an important part of the war effort. Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India, but presumably some individuals did.
    - qazpot 7y ago
      > Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India This is like saying Maine is not independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with USA.
throwaway99033 7y ago
Until recently, I had a strongly positive impression of India, as an outsider: rapidly modernizing, forward thinking and tolerant. Indians I meet in real life certainly tend to reinforce that position. However, I stumbled upon Indian Twitter during the election campaign, and I have been shocked by the vicious hatred and massive troll armies, that exceed anything I’ve noticed elsewhere. I imagine that WhatsApp is worse. The shocking behaviour has greatly diminished my opinion of the country, and it now strikes me as a powder-keg of hate. The article mentions that the internet is being promoted as a way of advancing the country...if that’s advancement, it may be better for India to hit the brakes.
- mav3rick 7y ago
  You judged a country of a billion people by two small subsets. No country has as diverse a people as India. It comes with its own set of problems. "don't use the internet" reeks of such privilege.
  - throwaway99033 7y ago
    That’s a reasonable point, and I do try to keep some perspective. The number of “likes” and retweets for the hateful posts does seem to scale for India’s massive population. India also has a long history of deadly “communal violence”, something that doesn’t really happen in other democracies. If questioning whether it’s wise for companies like Twitter and WhatsApp to allow incitement for violence to exist in such an environment is regarded as “privilege”, so be it.
    - vakataka 7y ago
      There is a reason for proliferation of hate on Twitter and that is the skewed form of secularism that the Indian state has followed all these years. Those who have lived in India know that most of the time the state is lenient towards minorities even when they commit crimes. Even history has been whitewashed to portray invaders as benign rulers so as to not offend minorities. In some ways the Indian Natinal Congress turned the country's polity into minoritarianism because they realized they could continue winning elections with just their votes (this statement is a bit of a simplification). The majority which has silently been observing this got a voice with the advent of social media. For someone who doesn't have this context, Indians will of course look hateful and communal.
kappi 7y ago
Don't believe everything NYT writes. they have their own agenda. https://twitter.com/hussain_imtiyaz/status/1160221786950098944 https://twitter.com/hussain_imtiyaz/status/11602217869500989...
- chopete 7y ago
  These could be old videos. I always wondered why doesn't the government install a few hundred web cams across the big cities for the rest of world, including the journalists to see the reality. Why do only the journalists have to travel there and take pictures of whatever corner they want and tell whatever story they want to tell.
  - hexagone 7y ago
    Reminds me of the time terrorists were shooting up Mumbai. A "brave" TV news channel gave live coverage. Intelligence agencies found out that the live coverage was being used by handlers to give specific instructions to the attackers.
  - owaislone 7y ago
    Definitely old videos. At least most of them. Also the account sharing the video is a high ranking police office. Not sure why an Indian police officer is a reputable source in this situation but NYT, BCC, HuffPost, AJE, BusinessInsider, etc are not.
  - kappi 7y ago
    fakenews NYT is more reliable than someone on the ground.. hilarious check the twitter feed this journalist also https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161226787352825856 https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161226787352825856 The only time I accepted Govt offer was to take around 40-50 journalists in batches of 5 on a chopper to show Srinagar yesterday after Eid prayers. This was to bust rumours of massive protests or state brutality. There were no people visible on the streets. Restrictions in place
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Twitter feed of serving J&K Police officer is hardly unbiased source
hexagone 7y ago
Paywalled in India. Text/tldr? Does the article cover urban and rural areas of Kashmir, Jammu, Ladakh?
- kobiguru 7y ago
  Here enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/bab500/bypass_news_sitess_paywalls_with_this_firefox/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/bab500/bypass_news_...
azifali 7y ago
The Government of India has applied unnecessary force in trying to remove dissent, prevented lawful assembly and removed the right to be able to exercise their constitutional guarantees including the right to vote (the recent election was postponed, the legislative assembly was dissolved and governer's rule has been applied). This provision was guaranteed by the constitution and the government should have called for the people's opinion either through a vote, or through their elected representatives. Instead what we see is a shadow of facism in the country - elected representatives are jailed, curfew is imposed and the rights of the state enshrined in the constitution is removed. What next for India - new laws to call anyone a "terrorist" without due process (happening now), presidential style election and a change to the constitution to elect our "Dear Leader" for perpetuity.
chopete 7y ago
We have so many satellites up there that can stream photos of specific locations. Can those companies fund a few days' worth of live streaming of key areas? It gives everybody an option to see the reality/facts instead of opinions. Nobody knows whom to trust in these crisis times and everything appears as an opinion of an individual or a small group.
- sumedh 7y ago
  > Can those companies fund a few days' I assume these companies dont want any trouble from the Indian Govt if they have business in India.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Planet’s satellites use Indian launch vehicles due to their economic viability. They were muted in their response to Debris in outer soace due to Indian anti satellite test.
    - virtuabhi 7y ago
      Any support for your statement? If not, can you stop commenting on this thread? IMO you have degraded this thread enough.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        Degraded? Oh, is it looking bad for India? Then India should stop doing bad things. 10 Million people are caged right now, while you can express yourself and you have the audacity to try to mute me too now. Here's your source, I am not into bullshit: “While Planet enjoys a great working partnership with agencies of India’s government — like ISRO — we categorically condemn the anti-satellite missile intercept recently conducted by India’s defense department,” the San Francisco-based company tweeted March 27. “Space should be used for peaceful purposes, and destroying satellites on orbit severely threatens the long-term stability of the space environment for all space operators. Planet urges all space-capable nations to respect our orbital commons.” Planet will still not be boycotting ISRO and using them for the upcoming launch of 5th series of Dove satellites.
sniperjzp 7y ago
Does anyone notice that in the video there are kids holding guns, at around 00:54 and 01:11? I hope they are not real.
- rounce 7y ago
  The Steyr TMP is definitely an injection moulded plastic toy. The Makarov also appears to be plastic but the light makes it hard to see for sure.
selimthegrim 7y ago
Get a load of this: https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161161663493464064 https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161161663493464064 If J&K Police has some cell in Srinagar writing form letters to Twitter in San Francisco every time someone posts something they don't like God help them when the Internet comes back on.
kappi 7y ago
If anybody wants to read in detail about Kashmir issue from outsider, check this https://www.lawfareblog.com/indias-move-kashmir-unpacking-domestic-and-international-motivations-and-implications https://www.lawfareblog.com/indias-move-kashmir-unpacking-do...
- amalag 7y ago
  Hindu Chauvinist party. Really? There are dozens of countries with Islamic constitutions. Do we call all their leaders Islamic nationalists? There is a serious effort to malign democratic norms in India unless it is only for Islam, which was the state of affairs for J&K. Hindus in Jammu and Ladakh which were part of the state of J&K were second class citizens. That has been removed. Property rights of females is also restored unlike the Kashmiri Sharia influenced constitution. Kashmiri separatism is another in the line of Islamic jihadi separatism. It was co-opted by the Pakistanis because they only consider that Muslims can live ruled by Mullahs and Sharia and an Islamic constitution. You will probably find 75% people in India or more in agreement with Modi's action. The whip of the largest opposition party quit his party because he agreed with BJP's actions. Remember that the resolutions passed parliament with 66% of votesin the Rajya Sabha and 84% in the Lok Sabha. That is greater than the numbers of the BJP so many other parties joined them in this. India's 1.3 billion people will have no problem fighting another war with Pakistan if again attacked over Kashmir. The international media might as well get used to it.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    I hear that Janata party trying to get Jan Sangh people to resign their affiliations went over like a lead balloon in the seventies. BTW, Kashmiris liked them. RSS people can keep their membership and be called secular?
    - amalag 7y ago
      Hinduism is secular. Where have historically persecuted people of the world gone? To Hindu India. Indian Hindus are why Zorastrian people still exists as a religion. They had to flee Iran and Islamic domination hundreds of years ago. Hindu India has its share of casteism, which is a real problem. That I can agree with.
makpy 7y ago
Project loon? Good time to make a real impact Google!
Multicomp 7y ago
Mesh networks please! Briar, Meshenger , heck maybe we need to make a cell phone app to provide internet connection sharing over WiFi and or Bluetooth ad hoc networks. Can it replace full isps? Almost never. Can it enable light text based things like emails, ordering supplies or cashless trxns? Maybe... The biggest problem is scale of course, having such a large geographic area would require most of the population to have this mesh app active at once plus several 'exit nodes' with access to actual isp traffic somewhere in other regions. IDK this is a spitball reaction that I considered not posting as it doesn't seem very thought provoking like normal HN comments but if it Sparks discussion then it will have done its job.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
owaislone 7y ago
I generally try to stay away from threads related to Kashmir across social media because they tend to be toxic with people having absolutely no regard for democracy and basic human decency towards others. I thought HN discussion would be better and while it was a little better, it turned out to be more or less the same. In retrospect, I shouldn't have expected otherwise.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I am sorry we let you down. I tried my best for my part.
- iamshs 7y ago
  Speak for people who are silenced. Don't let overwhelming propaganda demotivate you, the article stands for itself. Propaganda in here is actually transparent and future visitors will be able to discern it. Make their job easier.
scarejunba 7y ago
In a historical sense, when a government shut off communications out of some place somewhere, has there been a time they were just doing good things? In a Bayesian sense, I feel like any time someone is saying "Nobody from inside here can tell anyone outside anything", that someone isn't really doing good things. I wonder if it's worthwhile to install some sort of LibertyWeb that forms a meshnet+satellite internet that allows text through, just in case governments turn authoritarian.
hemansan 7y ago
India is preventing the fate of Yugoslavia. It would have been occupation if Kashmiris had lesser rights but that's not the case. People don't ask what rights did people of Kashmir didn't have that people of India had since 1947. India is a country of diverse religions, and ethnic groups. If a minority group demands separate nation should you give autonomy to it? If London becomes Muslim majority, and demands separation, should England give in to that demand? If India gives away Kashmir, it means you can never trust minority of your country because they can ask for separate nation and the world will support that demand. Do we really think that helps the cause of minorities in India or any other country in the world?
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  It's not just about the religion. Pakistan will most likely use Kashmir as a terror launchpad against other regions of India. From India's perspective, the region is strategic than anything else.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  For your sake I hope not - when Kosovo autonomy was revoked all other republics became afraid. If I were Mamata Didi right now I’d be up late at night worrying about how many seats my assembly victory margin has to be for it not to be taken away with Darjeeling being made a UT.
zed88 7y ago
There are lots of Hindutva apologists on Hacker News it seems.
- iamshs 7y ago
  A lot. Swarming in here.
salqadri 7y ago
This article shows that Internet has to be seen as a basic human right. It's so sad what India is doing to the Kashmiri people.
agilecharacter 7y ago
lol, the pakistani propaganda train has reached ycombinator now.
surds 7y ago
Wow. Matters always get heated up when J&K comes up. Folks, chill out. This is HN, not one of the toxic comment cesspools around the internet. IMO, the removal of article 370 was a good move because: - Article 370 was originally meant to be temporary. Central governments before the current one did not have the will, numbers and political spine to get it done. - Kashmir, as it was, would have been fine if it was a progressive and developing state. Yes, it has developed compared what the situation was before, but give the amount of money that is poured in there per capita, compared to the rest of the country, is a lot! And it does not reach the people. - The traditional Federal and State government model works decently well but it does not work with Kashmir and the local government could pick and choose only the new rules and amendments they liked. Anecdote: Kashmir government has a tenure of 6 years, the rest of India: 5 years. India had made that provision for a short time and was rolled back. Since it was more convenient for Kashmiri politicians, it was adopted and kept. - Indian Supreme Court rulings did not always apply to Kashmir. - The new Union Territory of Ladakh wanted to be so for a long time. - Local politicians loved article 370. It gave them the autonomy to get more money and leverage to keep themselves in power. They often walked a diplomatic line so as to keep the money lines open from India and keep Pakistan engaged and enticed. - Regional and religious Separatists thrives in J&K, often getting financed by Pakistan and inciting the people and youth in J&K. These money sources are being cut off since months now, slowing reducing the illicit finances to these activities. - From what I have seen from interviews of locals, people are happy to angry about the change, while some are just unhappy with the ‘change’ as they had adapted to the conditions. Now, about the way it was done: - the central government did the necessary groundwork to identify threats and risks. - recalled all tourists, pilgrims and out of state students from the area. - Sent in army platoons to maintain law and order situation. - clamped down on local leadership - took down the internet services - increases alertness along the Pakistan border. Though I would personally hate to be in this situation, I think I understand and appreciate why it was done. Absence of even some of the above measures would have resulted in the spread of massive misinformation or even propaganda and resulted in violent incidents on scale. Local politicians and separatists would be the ones to provoke this as removal of article 370 had a direct impact on their power and influence. The situation could have been dire and the same opposition parties would have been singing a different tune as to ‘why were adequate measures not taken’? The restrictions are already being phased out and I hope the life for general population normalizes soon. All this is done, but what next? The removal of article 370 has had multiple challenges in the Supreme Court, so it has yet to be seen how it plays out. Also, there is a lot of work that needs to be done there in the coming years to win over the trust of the local populace. Security threats may increase - as it can be easily seen how unhappy Pakistan is with the removal of article 370. Those have to be tackled. How this move actually works out depends on how the government tackles the upcoming hurdles, and J&K being a UT would certainly help them. This is my opinion about the situation and the way it was tacked. Hope I am not downvoted into oblivion for this. Oh, well. :shrug:
eqtn 7y ago
What would happen when starlink comes to existence? Would a country ask the company to shut off that part of satellites?
redpillor 7y ago
What laws changed with the removal of Article 370? This is a extremely detailed Before vs Now list. I need your help to make it better. The only people who are really unhappy with the new law is Terrorists, Three powerful families, Pakistanis and people who don't know what changed. Let me put it in simple words. I have mentioned sources for all the points I made. Before- You can marry a child in Kashmir legally and have sex with her. [Yes, Child marriage was legal there] Now - Child marriage is illegal. There is an age limit for marriage just like anywhere else in India. [This made a lot of paedophiles angry as they won't be able to have sex with kids legally like before.] Before - If a Kashmir girl marries a person from anywhere else in India, she will immediately lose all her properties in Kashmir. It means she will no longer be the owner of her own house and land. Also, her children can't inherit any properties and they cannot even get admission in the educational institutes of Kashmir. This practically means they are systematically banished from Kashmir forever. Now - No matter who a Kashmiri girl marries, she will get to keep her own properties. [This made several people angry that now girls also have right to property] Before - Poorest people and low caste discriminated people do not have any protection laws or reservation or scholarship while all other states of India had this. Now - Poorest people and lower caste discriminated people will get very strong protection laws and reservation and scholarships. [This made landlord like people angry as they will no longer be able to legally abuse their servants[read slaves]] Before - A man can divorce his wife by just saying three words "Talak Talak Talak" and wife will not get any maintenance money. [This usually means the wife will be homeless with nowhere to go and no income to survive. Many women were living as wives even under torture by their husbands in fear what will happen if her husband says these three words.] Now - Divorce by "Talak Talak Talak" is a punishable offence, and Maintainance laws apply. [This made old-minded men and bad husbands angry that their wives now have rights and is no longer their dependent slave] Before - The politics in J&K revolved around 3 families holding all the power. Think like the "Lords" in Game of thrones. These three families live like kings looting all money. Corruption was at the highest. Now - The domination by these 3 families are gone, and ground-level new leaders can emerge. New Anti-corruption laws apply. [This made these 3 families with a net worth in billions of dollars angry that they will be under probe of anti-corruption laws] Before - If a person becomes the chief minister of Kashmir, It is legally required to make a multi-million dollar bungalow at posh locality plus maintenance plus luxury car plus dozens of servants. All expense to be paid by the taxpayer of course. And, this person gets to keep all these things for the entire lifetime. Over $10million was spent for "renovation of bungalow" by the previous chief minister in the last couple of years. Now - Chief Minister will not get such special benefits. They will have to vacate their official residence once they are not in power. And, these previous chief ministers may be asked to give-back these ill-earned properties. [These people are angry that they will lose their $50million+ worth bungalows and other benefits. All the chief ministers were from the three families I mentioned above, and they were the one who made this law that they should get bungalows] Before - There were no laws protecting the minorities in J&K. This lead to the minorities being forced out of their own homes by the majority group over the past few decades. These majority people did a genocide of minorities in 1990s and 80s leading to the minorities having to flee for their life. Now - Minority protection laws apply. [Some majority group is angry that minorities now have rights] Before - Homosexuality is illegal and banned. Now - LGBT laws protect Homosexual people. [Religious people are angry that homosexuality is being legalized] Before - Over 100,000 people whose ancestors migrated from Pakistan to J&k state of India in 1947 did not have voting rights till now. They were practically stateless. People migrated to any other state in India has full voting rights, but not for people who migrated to J&K. Now - Everyone has voting rights. The democratic rights of a person in Kashmir is the same as the person in India's capital Delhi. [Some politicians are angry that their lopsided discriminatory politics will no longer work and may backfire because of these people getting voting rights.] Before - People of J&K can buy land/do-business/study/settle anywhere in India, but people of India can't buy land in J&K. This lead to no businesses being able to invest in J&K thus it remained under-developed while rest of India progressed. The biggest employer in J&K is the government itself as there is no way to start businesses, thus no employment. There was also no private hospitals, no good educational facilities etc. Now - Both people of J&K and people of rest of India can buy land/do-business/study/settle anywhere in India including J&K. A lot of companies have already promised investment in J&K. A lot of big educational institutions are coming up. Two cities of J&K are getting Metro-trains for easy transportation. This will give a lot of employment and bring people out of poverty... Mukesh Ambani promises investment in Jammu & Kashmir, says Reliance will set up special team. Article 370 gone, investor summit planned in Jammu and Kashmir to boost industry, healthcare. Before - Kashmiri children did not have the right to education. Only the rich get educated, others remain poor and illiterate forever. Now - Right to education is a right of every child. No matter if they are poor or not, they get access to education. It is compulsory by law for the government to give education opportunities to each and every child. If a child is poor, he/she gets free education. We are talking about over 500 such barbaric laws which will be gone with the removal of 370. I have only mentioned a few important ones over here, so now you can get an idea on how gigantic this change is. There are powerful people who are unhappy with this as it takes away their power, thus they will do whatever it takes to stop this change. As a precautionary measure, a lot of police personal from around India was sent to Kashmir to maintain peace knowing very well that terrorists, Pakistani army and these politically powerful people will definitely try to disrupt peace. Regarding communication blackout, that is the standard policy applied to all places which have chances of peace-disruption due to people misusing it to create violence using fake-news and instant-reaction without thinking rationally. In the previous year itself, at two places in India, the same policy was applied. That is, one during Jat Riots in Haryana{Near Delhi} and Sterlite Protest in Tamil Nadu[Southern India]. In the case of Kashmir, communication blackout of as long as 4 months has happened in 2010 after a terrorist attack. This is nothing new. Jammu and Kashmir is also a place with a lot of terrorist activities from reputed terrorist organizations including ISIS, Lashkar-e-Taiba, JEM, Osama Bin Laden etc. Kashmir war fears grow as Pakistan cleric close to Osama bin Laden tells followers to wage jihad against India. "We Still Have 30,000-40,000" Terrorists, Admits Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan Article 370 : Imran Khan warns of another Pulwama terrorist attack[Pak pm threatening a terror strike subtly] There was a major terrorist attack this February itself which killed a lot of people. Taking precautions during such major change is necessary, the alternative is that hundreds of people will die. So, I suggest everyone to think it through on what they think is important. In my opinion, this is the best thing that has happened in J&K. This will bring lot of stability, investment and development. There is a risk of terrorist strikes, even Pakistan's Prime Minister has hinted it.
alpha0mega 7y ago
Indian Govt's this precautionary measure ensured no loss of life. Pakistan and its sympathizers spreading fake news to cause disturbance in Kashmir so that a large scale loss of life happen and then they can cry and do drama on world stage and accuse India. Don't fall for that propaganda.
fromreddit 7y ago
Some relevant Wikipedia links 1- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya 2 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_pl... 3 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind 4 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya 5 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal 6 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam) 7 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement 8 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus 9 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_India_with_a_Thousand_Cuts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_India_with_a_Thousand_... 10 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_explo... 11 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Relationship_with_Muhammad https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Relationship_with_Muha... 12 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam

200 points by ETHisso2017 7y ago

The shutdown is because 10% of the population of Indian Kashmir is hardcore wahabi sunni and holding the rest of it to ransom. People forget the 45% non muslim population suffering and the rest muslim population who dont turn up to these stone pelting protests.

statguy 7y ago

I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprising?

iamshs 7y ago
Absolute repeat of what happened in 1984 against Sikhs in Punjab. Play by Play. This is just the start of worse for Kashmir unfortunately. The young ones are in for a brutal ride especially. And no one will listen, as they are not Upper caste Hindus.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  This is why Amarinder Singh was first to condemn it
  - mandeepj 7y ago
    Amarinder is from opposition party so he had to condemn it
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      Are people not allowed to have opinions independent of their party now? There were plenty of Congresspeople who broke ranks and supported it. The opposition LS whips doing so is sad and frightening.
      - sbmthakur 7y ago
        > The opposition LS whips doing so is sad and frightening. Doesn't this comment contrast your first statement.
        selimthegrim 7y ago
        No it just means I don’t like it.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Amarinder Singh has not condemned Indian communication lockdown or curfew and ensuing brutalities, he only condemned breaking of state into two Union Territories in an unconstitutional way. He is the same guy who supported Indian Army when they tied an innocent Kashmiri in front of a jeep and paraded him into town. His approach is very wily.
- eklavya 7y ago
  How are sikhs worse in Punjab now? The 1984 riots were perpetrated by the same people who are opposing this move.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Indian Army's official publication, Baatcheet, asked for "Sikhs to be reported to authorities as they are dangerous criminals" in 1990. After such a blanket generalisation, Sikhs were indeed reported to authorities, and killed extra-judiciously. Mothers came to know what happened to their sons through newspapers replete with a photo of a cop getting bounty alongside the article branding her son as a militant. Just last month, 3 policemen were convicted of one such extrajudicial killing, and they were all pardoned by Punjab governor. Same governor attended a convocation ceremony where a student handed him a letter protesting the pardon of criminals, and the student was instead issued a show-cause notice of why a guest was humiliated. So nothing, it's all hunky dory in Punjab right now. BTW, this is a classic Hindu Nationalist propaganda move. Justify past excesses, whitewash them by saying everything is pleasant in the present. Also, use an ad-hominem and paint the other as an opponent instantly.
    - eklavya 7y ago
      Wow, you are on hyper drive in the entire thread. When what how did you come to the conclusions from my post? What exactly made me a propagandist? You have got to be kidding with Sikh regiment being one of the most valiant branches of Indian Army and a really high number of Indian Army soldiers per capita from Punjab. There was Pakistan sponsored terrorism in Punjab, there isn't anymore. Also citation needed for everything you said.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        I am countering propaganda, because this is personal for me. I cannot see an entire people silenced just because they are minorities, to be used to please the majority. And Sikh regiment officers and privates mutinied too when they heard of Indian Army attack on Darbar Sahib, Amritsar (Sikh Golden temple). India changed recruitment policies for these regiments soon after. Source: Understanding India's Counter-Rebellion Strategies during the Punjab Crisis - Philip Hultquist See in all the glory how Indian Government victimized Sikhs, and blatantly Indian Army asked for Sikhs to be reported to authorities, as they are dangerous people who commit arson and murder.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  I don't see any parallel. Khalistani separatism happened because Bhindranwale was propped by the Congress party to gain electoral giains. Who do you think the BJP has propped up now?
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Hindu Nationalist, BJP is quelling democracy the same exact way. Minorities curfewed and muted to satisfy lust of majority. Nobody allowed to protest, and children as young as 11 jailed without charges. Same exact type of extra-judicial killings and molestation of women. Worse, state controlled India media being used as a weapon to justify all the excesses to the Indian masses. Manufacturing consent. It don't matter you cannot get Asthma medicine or Insulin, but believe is this all will help you in the end. What a democracy to look up to.
    - sbmthakur 7y ago
      > Hindu Nationalist, BJP is quelling democracy the same exact way. Minorities curfewed and muted to satisfy lust of majority. Minorities are not curfew anywhere in India. In Kashmir, Muslims are in majority. > Nobody allowed to protest, and children as young as 11 jailed without charges. Same exact type of extra-judicial killings and molestation of women. I don't recall that happening after the curfew was put in place. Could you share some news reports? > Worse, state controlled India media being used as a weapon to justify all the excesses to the Indian masses. Manufacturing consent. I haven't seen DD News justifying anything. They're just reporting what they're seeing.
kobiguru 7y ago
Preventative measures are necessary for the kind of thing it can spark. The change is not like demonetisation rather a well thought and long-held demand of the present government. It has been there in the election manifesto since they started publishing election manifesto. The new york times is entitled to its view on how India's elected government ought to run the country but that does not mean the government is going to forgo one of THE demands of the party founders. The other thing that is ignored is that for seventy years Kashmir has gotten the biggest share of the central government's outlays for states and they have nothing to show for. Doing the same thing expecting a different result is bad in any environment. I am not sure if this will work or not but what I am sure is that the previous status quo did not work. Moreover, how long would the entire state's ambition be held hostage because of an intolerant minority in four districts in the Kashmir valley? Edit: "Intorelent Minority" comes from Taleb's essay/book on the skin in the game here is the link here is what I meant by Intorelant minority. I am sorry if It came as bigoted but I would call any small group of people this https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
- owaislone 7y ago
  Here come the apologists. How can such a step be justified when the 12 million people did not vote for the said election manifesto? It's like saying UK is justified in annexing all of Ireland because people in England voted for it.
  - tech_dreamer 7y ago
    If you are not aware please read the following article to get a complete picture - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Oh god, Wikipedia has been taken over. Just look at the language and sources. All actions by India have been sugar coated with flowery language. Governor’s rule and Marshall Law is written as, “This allowed Governor Jagmohan to rule directly”. Not mentioning the fact that he dismissed a democratically elected government on a ruse.
Arun2009 7y ago
> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully integrated into India once and for all. They also consider the indecision about Kashmir's status in India as being a prime cause for terrorism in that region. Kicking the muslims has very little to do with it. Whether this step will backfire remains to be seen. Indians will have to ask some very tough questions about what kind of nation they want India to be, and whether the vision they come up with will be viable at all given the nature of the Indian society.
- iamshs 7y ago
  You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majority region. And BJP considers, Muslims and Christians as invaders and pests. This manifesto point is just utter bunkum to placate their Hindu Nationalistic base since 1950s, they finally got to fulfill it since they have the numbers and money power now. For the first time since India gained independence.
  - eklavya 7y ago
    “Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan”, this takes Hindu as identity like American and not a religion. “When there are other regions ...”, no, laws passed by the parliament were applicable everywhere except in Kashmir. So you had gems like child marriage not outlawed. It’s lazy and biased journalism to just label them Hindu nationalists and portray them like some sort of evil overlords. India for centuries has been the most inclusive place in the world. Let’s not try and paint the majority as some kind of a clan of idiot oppressors.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
amalag 7y ago
I think its pretty clear you pulled that out of your fertile imagination.
thanks1banks2 7y ago
India is a secular state. We treat all religions with equal respect. This is in the constitution. This issue is an internal matter following due process within our parliamentary framework.
- iamshs 7y ago
  If India is so secular why is there a tax law called Hindu Undivided Family or HUF, which Muslims cannot use to reduce their taxable income? How can a damn tax law be applicable on basis of religion? If it is so secular then why does Indian Constitution term Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs under Hindu religion umbrella. Since when is it for the constitution to define religions? If India is so secular than why does it ban beef, sacred animal only to Hindus? If it is so secular then why does it welcome Hindu refugees from Pakistan and expels Muslim Rohingya refugees?
  - la12 7y ago
    I'm not sure why you're avoiding talking about the role of Pakistan in creating the whole conflict in Kashmir. Pakistan invented out of the whole cloth an armed struggle aspect to the Kashmir situation. It's extremely convenient on your part to talk pointwise all the Pakistani talking points and yet avoid talking about the 90% causative factor in this entire mess.
  - vakataka 7y ago
    FYI, Indian Muslims have their own personal law while the rest of the population follows uniform civil code. They get Hajj subsidies and other perks that no other community gets. As for taking refugees, a country can deny entry based on any number of reasons. In 2018, the number of refugees taken in by the US has gone down. That doesn't mean US is less secular. I agree Indian constitution is not the most secular but it definitely is not anti-minority.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?
cscurmudgeon 7y ago
I can't understand how anyone who stands for gender equality and minority rights can support Kashmir being autonomous. This move by the Indian government is objectively good for minorities (Christians, Hindus, Jains etc) and women in the state. https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fundamental-rights-kashmir-constitution-feminists-feminism-kashmir-kashmiri-hindus-dalits-pakistani-hindu-refugees-kashmiri-sikhs-women-s-rights/story/1/30216.html https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fu... Kashmir had 70 years to rectify this after Independence but to chose to double down on ethnic cleansing of minorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus
- iamshs 7y ago
  Because gender equality and minority rights points are being used as a greenhorn to subjugate an entire minority. Article 370 giving them autonomy is gone, and not only their autonomy is gone but the state has been degraded as a Union Territory directly under Federal control. A law which has been abrogated by locking down 10 Million people, and not allowing them the right to protest. I think we all know why the law has been forced in.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    Kashmir wasn't exactly a peaceful paradise before the abrogation of the article. Stone pelting was a regular affair and long term curfew has been enforced previously in 2008 and after Burhan Wani's death. The Federal Government has to ensure security of the people to prevent bloodshed.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Ah, security of people trope. Good to know so much security has been ensured 10 million people are caged.
      - sbmthakur 7y ago
        It might be a trope for you, but not for the people who routinely get gunned down by Pakistan backed terrorists and incur significant bloodshed in the process.
sbmthakur 7y ago
That's false. Demonization is not relevant to any of this. Article 370 was a temporary provision in the Constitution. It's removal was on BJP's agenda since 80s. India's founding founders like B.R. Ambedkar were also somewhat against having seperate set of rules for J&K. The most likely reason for it's removal is that Article 370 still protected regressive practices like Triple Talaq and Child marriage and created a beaurocratic roadblock in implementation of Federal Government schemes(like reservation). The claim that this was done to subvert state's Muslim majority doesn't hold merit. India has states like Punjab, Nagaland and Mizoram which don't have Hindu majority and are still doing well.

saagarjha 7y ago

Shutting down the internet in an effort to "keep the peace" is really dystopian: how do Indian citizens stand for it?

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
Any country that has been paying attention in recent years knows that the internet allows the opposition to organize, coordinate, and recruit effectively. The US and China deal with this by ensuring they have leverage over the platforms that people use to communicate. Other countries that do not have this leverage, have to resort to shutting down the internet in areas of unrest.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Yes, but presumably people have a say in the laws that let this happen?
- rqs 7y ago
  You know what, that "resort to" will probably cause more uprising. Some people maybe don't care about what ever is happening outside, but now they cannot connect to Steam anymore. China was disconnected Xinjiang from the network in the past. During that time, some Xinjiangers traveled to neighboring province so they can take care their business in some online game. I guess they were the people who received the most piss from the disconnect, not those "uprising organizers".
- mandeepj 7y ago
  > The US and China deal with this by ensuring they have leverage over the platforms that people use to communicate. By leverage, you mean the Prism project in USA?
NikolaeVarius 7y ago
Majority support annexing of the region
- saagarjha 7y ago

pipingdog 7y ago

> Jammu and Kashmir, an area of 12.5 million people that is claimed by both India and Pakistan It would seem that India has the more practically demonstrable claim.

eschulz 7y ago
Would your opinion lead you to believe that India should act quickly and remedy the unacceptable state of affairs in which the residents find themselves?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

40acres 7y ago

At what point is a region so distinct from the state in which it resides that the best course of action would be secession? When I read the news I see conflicts in integration every where: Hong Kong, Kashmir, Kurdish Syria / Turkey. My general feeling is that due to a number of factors (imperialism, war, etc.) that our current global map just doesn't reflect the reality of international relations, unfortunately border disputes are rarely resolved peacefully...

reaperducer 7y ago
I think the reality is that while politicians draw borders, and governments like them not to move, people move, ideals change, cultures spread and any region eventually doesn't match its lines on a map. Sometimes it's messy (Yugoslav Wars), sometimes it's more civil (Virginia/West Virginia). But change happens. It's how we react and manage that change that helps define us as a people.
ajross 7y ago
Balkanization has been tried, you know. Thousands of times. That doesn't work so well either. It sounds glib and naive, but at the end of the day the path to peace is just for people to stop fighting, forgive past sins and learn to live with each other. And generally that happens only after they get wealthy. Which makes shutting down core civil infrastructure deeply counterproductive.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hos234 7y ago
Well India has 20-30 odd states that are each, as distinct as countries in Europe. So answers to your questions lie in understanding how they have stayed integrated inspite of all the differences.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

>Kashmir, an area of 12.5 million people that is claimed by both India and Pakistan and has long been a source of tension. There is also a portion of the area that is claimed by China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir#/media/File:Kashmir_region_2004.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir#/media/File:...

desi_ninja 7y ago
Given to China by Pakistan who didn't have right to it in the first place as per UN
- iamshs 7y ago
  Shakshagam valley has been ceded to China by Pakistan as it not was contiguous territory, so Pakistan got Brownie points. Aksai Chin was not given by Pakistan to China.

adpirz 7y ago

Am Kashmiri. Was born there. Have family there. My parents were born and raised there. This is scary even for a region marked by persistent curfews, border clashes between two nuclear powers, and an ongoing series of conflicts between insurgents and the Indian Army. We have extended family from whom we haven’t heard any news since this went into effect. It’s all just anxious waiting. What could possibly be the endgame from this unless you’re trying to actively foment rebellion? How can this have any widespread support?

tlb 7y ago
What's the status of other forms of communication, like postal mail or shortwave radio?
- iamshs 7y ago
  Postal Mail is not available for the region ‘until further orders’.
- owaislone 7y ago
  Mail has been banned as well. Cable TV was banned according to initial reports but recent reports say cable TV is now allowed. No idea about radio stations.
selimthegrim 7y ago
Why didn’t PDP grant permanent residency to the Sikh and Hindu refugees in Jammu from Poonch, Rawalakot, etc? No one is saying they would have gratefully voted for them but BJP talking point would have gone. Did they think they would demand the assembly seats from Muzaffarabad, Bagh etc?

sremani 7y ago

NYT forgot something, let me add new information - Kashmir Valley is one the few places in post-partition India where successful ETHNIC CLEANSING of local minorities (Hindus) took place. You reap what you sow. You kicked out real Kashmiris for the sin of being Hindus. Look at their slogan... Azadi ka matlab kya ? La ila illila.. So, if your not muslim you have no place in Kashmir or its Nationalist movement. No wonder, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist are unequivocal about their support of Indian action.

godelmachine 7y ago

Why hasn’t this been flagged yet? This post violates all guidelines of HackerNews.

saagarjha 7y ago
Well, it mentions an internet shutdown. I'd say that makes it better than the average article about the situation in Kashmir.
reaperducer 7y ago
Because the article is actually a pretty interesting look at how reliant the world has become on the internet. “I don’t know when to sleep, when to wake up, what to do with my life,” he said during a rare foray outside on Monday evening for Eid al-Adha, the holiest festival in Islam. “There is no life without internet, even in Kashmir.”
- kappi 7y ago
  this link violates all the guidelines of hackernews...i recommend taking it down.. it is a political hit job hinduphobic article thinly disguised as internet shutdown news.

reaperducer 7y ago

Shopkeepers said that vital supplies like insulin and baby food, which they typically ordered online, were running out. Cash was scarce, as metal shutters covered the doors and windows of banks and A.T.M.s, which relied on the internet for every transaction. Doctors said they could not communicate with their patients. While nobody expects a war in their city, it's yet another example of why none of us should rely on the internet as our sole means of doing anything. Imagine a city where cashless transactions were the norm. Then imagine some political group (internal or external) decides to cut off the internet to that city.

SoylentOrange 7y ago
While I understand where you’re coming from, I don’t agree with this sentiment. Imagine saying this about electricity or gasoline. Modern cities would be completely shut down without these resources, and we should treat the Internet in the same way - as a vital resource that we simply accept as present except in the most egregious or catastrophic circumstances.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Won’t work in total war. Internet will be sabotaged and maybe also power plants.
- tlb 7y ago
  In many previous conflicts, electricity and gasoline were cut off or in short supply. Being able to keep infrastructure running without them was an important part of the war effort. Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India, but presumably some individuals did.
  - qazpot 7y ago
    > Kashmir wasn't independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with India This is like saying Maine is not independent enough to be able to make state-wide preparations for a conflict with USA.

throwaway99033 7y ago

Until recently, I had a strongly positive impression of India, as an outsider: rapidly modernizing, forward thinking and tolerant. Indians I meet in real life certainly tend to reinforce that position. However, I stumbled upon Indian Twitter during the election campaign, and I have been shocked by the vicious hatred and massive troll armies, that exceed anything I’ve noticed elsewhere. I imagine that WhatsApp is worse. The shocking behaviour has greatly diminished my opinion of the country, and it now strikes me as a powder-keg of hate. The article mentions that the internet is being promoted as a way of advancing the country...if that’s advancement, it may be better for India to hit the brakes.

mav3rick 7y ago
You judged a country of a billion people by two small subsets. No country has as diverse a people as India. It comes with its own set of problems. "don't use the internet" reeks of such privilege.
- throwaway99033 7y ago
  That’s a reasonable point, and I do try to keep some perspective. The number of “likes” and retweets for the hateful posts does seem to scale for India’s massive population. India also has a long history of deadly “communal violence”, something that doesn’t really happen in other democracies. If questioning whether it’s wise for companies like Twitter and WhatsApp to allow incitement for violence to exist in such an environment is regarded as “privilege”, so be it.
  - vakataka 7y ago
    There is a reason for proliferation of hate on Twitter and that is the skewed form of secularism that the Indian state has followed all these years. Those who have lived in India know that most of the time the state is lenient towards minorities even when they commit crimes. Even history has been whitewashed to portray invaders as benign rulers so as to not offend minorities. In some ways the Indian Natinal Congress turned the country's polity into minoritarianism because they realized they could continue winning elections with just their votes (this statement is a bit of a simplification). The majority which has silently been observing this got a voice with the advent of social media. For someone who doesn't have this context, Indians will of course look hateful and communal.

kappi 7y ago

Don't believe everything NYT writes. they have their own agenda. https://twitter.com/hussain_imtiyaz/status/1160221786950098944 https://twitter.com/hussain_imtiyaz/status/11602217869500989...

chopete 7y ago
These could be old videos. I always wondered why doesn't the government install a few hundred web cams across the big cities for the rest of world, including the journalists to see the reality. Why do only the journalists have to travel there and take pictures of whatever corner they want and tell whatever story they want to tell.
- hexagone 7y ago
  Reminds me of the time terrorists were shooting up Mumbai. A "brave" TV news channel gave live coverage. Intelligence agencies found out that the live coverage was being used by handlers to give specific instructions to the attackers.
- owaislone 7y ago
  Definitely old videos. At least most of them. Also the account sharing the video is a high ranking police office. Not sure why an Indian police officer is a reputable source in this situation but NYT, BCC, HuffPost, AJE, BusinessInsider, etc are not.
- kappi 7y ago
  fakenews NYT is more reliable than someone on the ground.. hilarious check the twitter feed this journalist also https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161226787352825856 https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161226787352825856 The only time I accepted Govt offer was to take around 40-50 journalists in batches of 5 on a chopper to show Srinagar yesterday after Eid prayers. This was to bust rumours of massive protests or state brutality. There were no people visible on the streets. Restrictions in place
selimthegrim 7y ago
Twitter feed of serving J&K Police officer is hardly unbiased source

hexagone 7y ago

Paywalled in India. Text/tldr? Does the article cover urban and rural areas of Kashmir, Jammu, Ladakh?

kobiguru 7y ago
Here enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/bab500/bypass_news_sitess_paywalls_with_this_firefox/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/bab500/bypass_news_...

azifali 7y ago

The Government of India has applied unnecessary force in trying to remove dissent, prevented lawful assembly and removed the right to be able to exercise their constitutional guarantees including the right to vote (the recent election was postponed, the legislative assembly was dissolved and governer's rule has been applied). This provision was guaranteed by the constitution and the government should have called for the people's opinion either through a vote, or through their elected representatives. Instead what we see is a shadow of facism in the country - elected representatives are jailed, curfew is imposed and the rights of the state enshrined in the constitution is removed. What next for India - new laws to call anyone a "terrorist" without due process (happening now), presidential style election and a change to the constitution to elect our "Dear Leader" for perpetuity.

chopete 7y ago

We have so many satellites up there that can stream photos of specific locations. Can those companies fund a few days' worth of live streaming of key areas? It gives everybody an option to see the reality/facts instead of opinions. Nobody knows whom to trust in these crisis times and everything appears as an opinion of an individual or a small group.

sumedh 7y ago
> Can those companies fund a few days' I assume these companies dont want any trouble from the Indian Govt if they have business in India.
- iamshs 7y ago
  Planet’s satellites use Indian launch vehicles due to their economic viability. They were muted in their response to Debris in outer soace due to Indian anti satellite test.
  - virtuabhi 7y ago
    Any support for your statement? If not, can you stop commenting on this thread? IMO you have degraded this thread enough.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Degraded? Oh, is it looking bad for India? Then India should stop doing bad things. 10 Million people are caged right now, while you can express yourself and you have the audacity to try to mute me too now. Here's your source, I am not into bullshit: “While Planet enjoys a great working partnership with agencies of India’s government — like ISRO — we categorically condemn the anti-satellite missile intercept recently conducted by India’s defense department,” the San Francisco-based company tweeted March 27. “Space should be used for peaceful purposes, and destroying satellites on orbit severely threatens the long-term stability of the space environment for all space operators. Planet urges all space-capable nations to respect our orbital commons.” Planet will still not be boycotting ISRO and using them for the upcoming launch of 5th series of Dove satellites.

sniperjzp 7y ago

Does anyone notice that in the video there are kids holding guns, at around 00:54 and 01:11? I hope they are not real.

rounce 7y ago
The Steyr TMP is definitely an injection moulded plastic toy. The Makarov also appears to be plastic but the light makes it hard to see for sure.

selimthegrim 7y ago

Get a load of this: https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161161663493464064 https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1161161663493464064 If J&K Police has some cell in Srinagar writing form letters to Twitter in San Francisco every time someone posts something they don't like God help them when the Internet comes back on.

kappi 7y ago

If anybody wants to read in detail about Kashmir issue from outsider, check this https://www.lawfareblog.com/indias-move-kashmir-unpacking-domestic-and-international-motivations-and-implications https://www.lawfareblog.com/indias-move-kashmir-unpacking-do...

amalag 7y ago
Hindu Chauvinist party. Really? There are dozens of countries with Islamic constitutions. Do we call all their leaders Islamic nationalists? There is a serious effort to malign democratic norms in India unless it is only for Islam, which was the state of affairs for J&K. Hindus in Jammu and Ladakh which were part of the state of J&K were second class citizens. That has been removed. Property rights of females is also restored unlike the Kashmiri Sharia influenced constitution. Kashmiri separatism is another in the line of Islamic jihadi separatism. It was co-opted by the Pakistanis because they only consider that Muslims can live ruled by Mullahs and Sharia and an Islamic constitution. You will probably find 75% people in India or more in agreement with Modi's action. The whip of the largest opposition party quit his party because he agreed with BJP's actions. Remember that the resolutions passed parliament with 66% of votesin the Rajya Sabha and 84% in the Lok Sabha. That is greater than the numbers of the BJP so many other parties joined them in this. India's 1.3 billion people will have no problem fighting another war with Pakistan if again attacked over Kashmir. The international media might as well get used to it.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I hear that Janata party trying to get Jan Sangh people to resign their affiliations went over like a lead balloon in the seventies. BTW, Kashmiris liked them. RSS people can keep their membership and be called secular?
  - amalag 7y ago
    Hinduism is secular. Where have historically persecuted people of the world gone? To Hindu India. Indian Hindus are why Zorastrian people still exists as a religion. They had to flee Iran and Islamic domination hundreds of years ago. Hindu India has its share of casteism, which is a real problem. That I can agree with.

makpy 7y ago

Project loon? Good time to make a real impact Google!

Multicomp 7y ago

Mesh networks please! Briar, Meshenger , heck maybe we need to make a cell phone app to provide internet connection sharing over WiFi and or Bluetooth ad hoc networks. Can it replace full isps? Almost never. Can it enable light text based things like emails, ordering supplies or cashless trxns? Maybe... The biggest problem is scale of course, having such a large geographic area would require most of the population to have this mesh app active at once plus several 'exit nodes' with access to actual isp traffic somewhere in other regions. IDK this is a spitball reaction that I considered not posting as it doesn't seem very thought provoking like normal HN comments but if it Sparks discussion then it will have done its job.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

owaislone 7y ago

I generally try to stay away from threads related to Kashmir across social media because they tend to be toxic with people having absolutely no regard for democracy and basic human decency towards others. I thought HN discussion would be better and while it was a little better, it turned out to be more or less the same. In retrospect, I shouldn't have expected otherwise.

selimthegrim 7y ago
I am sorry we let you down. I tried my best for my part.
iamshs 7y ago
Speak for people who are silenced. Don't let overwhelming propaganda demotivate you, the article stands for itself. Propaganda in here is actually transparent and future visitors will be able to discern it. Make their job easier.

scarejunba 7y ago

In a historical sense, when a government shut off communications out of some place somewhere, has there been a time they were just doing good things? In a Bayesian sense, I feel like any time someone is saying "Nobody from inside here can tell anyone outside anything", that someone isn't really doing good things. I wonder if it's worthwhile to install some sort of LibertyWeb that forms a meshnet+satellite internet that allows text through, just in case governments turn authoritarian.

hemansan 7y ago

India is preventing the fate of Yugoslavia. It would have been occupation if Kashmiris had lesser rights but that's not the case. People don't ask what rights did people of Kashmir didn't have that people of India had since 1947. India is a country of diverse religions, and ethnic groups. If a minority group demands separate nation should you give autonomy to it? If London becomes Muslim majority, and demands separation, should England give in to that demand? If India gives away Kashmir, it means you can never trust minority of your country because they can ask for separate nation and the world will support that demand. Do we really think that helps the cause of minorities in India or any other country in the world?

sbmthakur 7y ago
It's not just about the religion. Pakistan will most likely use Kashmir as a terror launchpad against other regions of India. From India's perspective, the region is strategic than anything else.
selimthegrim 7y ago
For your sake I hope not - when Kosovo autonomy was revoked all other republics became afraid. If I were Mamata Didi right now I’d be up late at night worrying about how many seats my assembly victory margin has to be for it not to be taken away with Darjeeling being made a UT.

zed88 7y ago

There are lots of Hindutva apologists on Hacker News it seems.

iamshs 7y ago
A lot. Swarming in here.

salqadri 7y ago

This article shows that Internet has to be seen as a basic human right. It's so sad what India is doing to the Kashmiri people.

agilecharacter 7y ago

lol, the pakistani propaganda train has reached ycombinator now.

surds 7y ago

Wow. Matters always get heated up when J&K comes up. Folks, chill out. This is HN, not one of the toxic comment cesspools around the internet. IMO, the removal of article 370 was a good move because: - Article 370 was originally meant to be temporary. Central governments before the current one did not have the will, numbers and political spine to get it done. - Kashmir, as it was, would have been fine if it was a progressive and developing state. Yes, it has developed compared what the situation was before, but give the amount of money that is poured in there per capita, compared to the rest of the country, is a lot! And it does not reach the people. - The traditional Federal and State government model works decently well but it does not work with Kashmir and the local government could pick and choose only the new rules and amendments they liked. Anecdote: Kashmir government has a tenure of 6 years, the rest of India: 5 years. India had made that provision for a short time and was rolled back. Since it was more convenient for Kashmiri politicians, it was adopted and kept. - Indian Supreme Court rulings did not always apply to Kashmir. - The new Union Territory of Ladakh wanted to be so for a long time. - Local politicians loved article 370. It gave them the autonomy to get more money and leverage to keep themselves in power. They often walked a diplomatic line so as to keep the money lines open from India and keep Pakistan engaged and enticed. - Regional and religious Separatists thrives in J&K, often getting financed by Pakistan and inciting the people and youth in J&K. These money sources are being cut off since months now, slowing reducing the illicit finances to these activities. - From what I have seen from interviews of locals, people are happy to angry about the change, while some are just unhappy with the ‘change’ as they had adapted to the conditions. Now, about the way it was done: - the central government did the necessary groundwork to identify threats and risks. - recalled all tourists, pilgrims and out of state students from the area. - Sent in army platoons to maintain law and order situation. - clamped down on local leadership - took down the internet services - increases alertness along the Pakistan border. Though I would personally hate to be in this situation, I think I understand and appreciate why it was done. Absence of even some of the above measures would have resulted in the spread of massive misinformation or even propaganda and resulted in violent incidents on scale. Local politicians and separatists would be the ones to provoke this as removal of article 370 had a direct impact on their power and influence. The situation could have been dire and the same opposition parties would have been singing a different tune as to ‘why were adequate measures not taken’? The restrictions are already being phased out and I hope the life for general population normalizes soon. All this is done, but what next? The removal of article 370 has had multiple challenges in the Supreme Court, so it has yet to be seen how it plays out. Also, there is a lot of work that needs to be done there in the coming years to win over the trust of the local populace. Security threats may increase - as it can be easily seen how unhappy Pakistan is with the removal of article 370. Those have to be tackled. How this move actually works out depends on how the government tackles the upcoming hurdles, and J&K being a UT would certainly help them. This is my opinion about the situation and the way it was tacked. Hope I am not downvoted into oblivion for this. Oh, well. :shrug:

eqtn 7y ago

What would happen when starlink comes to existence? Would a country ask the company to shut off that part of satellites?

redpillor 7y ago

What laws changed with the removal of Article 370? This is a extremely detailed Before vs Now list. I need your help to make it better. The only people who are really unhappy with the new law is Terrorists, Three powerful families, Pakistanis and people who don't know what changed. Let me put it in simple words. I have mentioned sources for all the points I made. Before- You can marry a child in Kashmir legally and have sex with her. [Yes, Child marriage was legal there] Now - Child marriage is illegal. There is an age limit for marriage just like anywhere else in India. [This made a lot of paedophiles angry as they won't be able to have sex with kids legally like before.] Before - If a Kashmir girl marries a person from anywhere else in India, she will immediately lose all her properties in Kashmir. It means she will no longer be the owner of her own house and land. Also, her children can't inherit any properties and they cannot even get admission in the educational institutes of Kashmir. This practically means they are systematically banished from Kashmir forever. Now - No matter who a Kashmiri girl marries, she will get to keep her own properties. [This made several people angry that now girls also have right to property] Before - Poorest people and low caste discriminated people do not have any protection laws or reservation or scholarship while all other states of India had this. Now - Poorest people and lower caste discriminated people will get very strong protection laws and reservation and scholarships. [This made landlord like people angry as they will no longer be able to legally abuse their servants[read slaves]] Before - A man can divorce his wife by just saying three words "Talak Talak Talak" and wife will not get any maintenance money. [This usually means the wife will be homeless with nowhere to go and no income to survive. Many women were living as wives even under torture by their husbands in fear what will happen if her husband says these three words.] Now - Divorce by "Talak Talak Talak" is a punishable offence, and Maintainance laws apply. [This made old-minded men and bad husbands angry that their wives now have rights and is no longer their dependent slave] Before - The politics in J&K revolved around 3 families holding all the power. Think like the "Lords" in Game of thrones. These three families live like kings looting all money. Corruption was at the highest. Now - The domination by these 3 families are gone, and ground-level new leaders can emerge. New Anti-corruption laws apply. [This made these 3 families with a net worth in billions of dollars angry that they will be under probe of anti-corruption laws] Before - If a person becomes the chief minister of Kashmir, It is legally required to make a multi-million dollar bungalow at posh locality plus maintenance plus luxury car plus dozens of servants. All expense to be paid by the taxpayer of course. And, this person gets to keep all these things for the entire lifetime. Over $10million was spent for "renovation of bungalow" by the previous chief minister in the last couple of years. Now - Chief Minister will not get such special benefits. They will have to vacate their official residence once they are not in power. And, these previous chief ministers may be asked to give-back these ill-earned properties. [These people are angry that they will lose their $50million+ worth bungalows and other benefits. All the chief ministers were from the three families I mentioned above, and they were the one who made this law that they should get bungalows] Before - There were no laws protecting the minorities in J&K. This lead to the minorities being forced out of their own homes by the majority group over the past few decades. These majority people did a genocide of minorities in 1990s and 80s leading to the minorities having to flee for their life. Now - Minority protection laws apply. [Some majority group is angry that minorities now have rights] Before - Homosexuality is illegal and banned. Now - LGBT laws protect Homosexual people. [Religious people are angry that homosexuality is being legalized] Before - Over 100,000 people whose ancestors migrated from Pakistan to J&k state of India in 1947 did not have voting rights till now. They were practically stateless. People migrated to any other state in India has full voting rights, but not for people who migrated to J&K. Now - Everyone has voting rights. The democratic rights of a person in Kashmir is the same as the person in India's capital Delhi. [Some politicians are angry that their lopsided discriminatory politics will no longer work and may backfire because of these people getting voting rights.] Before - People of J&K can buy land/do-business/study/settle anywhere in India, but people of India can't buy land in J&K. This lead to no businesses being able to invest in J&K thus it remained under-developed while rest of India progressed. The biggest employer in J&K is the government itself as there is no way to start businesses, thus no employment. There was also no private hospitals, no good educational facilities etc. Now - Both people of J&K and people of rest of India can buy land/do-business/study/settle anywhere in India including J&K. A lot of companies have already promised investment in J&K. A lot of big educational institutions are coming up. Two cities of J&K are getting Metro-trains for easy transportation. This will give a lot of employment and bring people out of poverty... Mukesh Ambani promises investment in Jammu & Kashmir, says Reliance will set up special team. Article 370 gone, investor summit planned in Jammu and Kashmir to boost industry, healthcare. Before - Kashmiri children did not have the right to education. Only the rich get educated, others remain poor and illiterate forever. Now - Right to education is a right of every child. No matter if they are poor or not, they get access to education. It is compulsory by law for the government to give education opportunities to each and every child. If a child is poor, he/she gets free education. We are talking about over 500 such barbaric laws which will be gone with the removal of 370. I have only mentioned a few important ones over here, so now you can get an idea on how gigantic this change is. There are powerful people who are unhappy with this as it takes away their power, thus they will do whatever it takes to stop this change. As a precautionary measure, a lot of police personal from around India was sent to Kashmir to maintain peace knowing very well that terrorists, Pakistani army and these politically powerful people will definitely try to disrupt peace. Regarding communication blackout, that is the standard policy applied to all places which have chances of peace-disruption due to people misusing it to create violence using fake-news and instant-reaction without thinking rationally. In the previous year itself, at two places in India, the same policy was applied. That is, one during Jat Riots in Haryana{Near Delhi} and Sterlite Protest in Tamil Nadu[Southern India]. In the case of Kashmir, communication blackout of as long as 4 months has happened in 2010 after a terrorist attack. This is nothing new. Jammu and Kashmir is also a place with a lot of terrorist activities from reputed terrorist organizations including ISIS, Lashkar-e-Taiba, JEM, Osama Bin Laden etc. Kashmir war fears grow as Pakistan cleric close to Osama bin Laden tells followers to wage jihad against India. "We Still Have 30,000-40,000" Terrorists, Admits Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan Article 370 : Imran Khan warns of another Pulwama terrorist attack[Pak pm threatening a terror strike subtly] There was a major terrorist attack this February itself which killed a lot of people. Taking precautions during such major change is necessary, the alternative is that hundreds of people will die. So, I suggest everyone to think it through on what they think is important. In my opinion, this is the best thing that has happened in J&K. This will bring lot of stability, investment and development. There is a risk of terrorist strikes, even Pakistan's Prime Minister has hinted it.

alpha0mega 7y ago

Indian Govt's this precautionary measure ensured no loss of life. Pakistan and its sympathizers spreading fake news to cause disturbance in Kashmir so that a large scale loss of life happen and then they can cry and do drama on world stage and accuse India. Don't fall for that propaganda.

fromreddit 7y ago

Some relevant Wikipedia links 1- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya 2 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_places_of_worship_into_mosques https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_pl... 3 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind 4 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya 5 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal 6 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam) 7 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement 8 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus 9 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_India_with_a_Thousand_Cuts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_India_with_a_Thousand_... 10 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_explo... 11 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Relationship_with_Muhammad https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Relationship_with_Muha... 12 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam