5 ms·

I would argue that wealth in the last thirty years was driven by two primary methods: 1.) Automating basic and well known tasks using computers. 2.) Outsourci

I would argue that wealth in the last thirty years was driven by two primary methods: 1.) Automating basic and well known tasks using computers. 2.) Outsourcing not easily automatable tasks to foreign counties and importing cheap labor. Manufacturing, software engineering etc. Things like getting wealthy in real estate and investments were off shoots of the above. I would argue that the two above have reached their capacity to be of benefit to average Americans. Further development of the two will continue to destroy the middle class and the cultural fabric of America. People are increasingly aware of this, hence the tense political climate in this country

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
Rich -- by it's nature -- is relative / subjective. If it was easy to "strike it rich", everyone would be rich -- and then we'd just call that "middle class". If we're just saying that social mobility is unusually low now, that's a different story.
- Retric 7y ago
  People don’t do many things that are easy. Barring unusual health issues, your body makes it really easy to regularly get enough sleep and has several mechanisms to push you in that direction. Yet, most Americans don’t get enough sleep regularly.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
    Then, my friend, I'd argue it isn't as easy as you think. Maybe it's easy because you're not stressed out. If it was easy for the people who are sleep deprived, they'd probably sleep more.
bduerst 7y ago
The difference is that the wealth from cost-cutting (automation/outsourcing) isn't shared with the middle class, but instead goes to the capital holders. If you look at the rise of the middle class in America it was from new service businesses flourishing, where skilled laborers could gain wealth. As the wealth gap grows, debt encumbers more young families, and the middle class shrinks, there is less disposable income to spend on services.
- tracker1 7y ago
  I think there is still quite a bit of growth in trade work (building/construction, etc). It's not easily outsourced and pays pretty well. Outside of that, I think we'll reach a point where Software Development as a craft is pushed down in terms of skills for those that don't keep up with ever changing trends. A lot of the middle class is being pushed out, and their pay will go down relatively speaking as "minimum wage" legislation pushes into law, while businesses have been relatively rapidly increasing prices outpacing any wage increases. As to TFAs mention of housing, while the market crash was a disruptive event, it mostly caught those who over-spent. For those who bought planning to stay at least 5-10 years, it didn't change too much. Although when your mortgage is 2x your neighbor who bought at the bottom it may sting. But if you bought at what you could afford, you should be fine. Investment is generally a risk. People tend to want guarantees and it doesn't ever really work that way.
- malandrew 7y ago
  > The difference is that the wealth from cost-cutting (automation/outsourcing) isn't shared with the middle class As an engineer with equity in the company I work for, I benefit and I'm middle class. I think there is also a misconception about how much the capital holders actually gain. A lot of automation is deflationary in the sense that it reduces the cost of production, which in turn allows a reduction in the price a product is sold at to capture market share. This allows the firm that is automating to capture a large piece of that market, but at the cost of making that market a lot smaller unless demand is pretty much unbounded. You have to both automate and grow the market for what you've automated to truly make it big.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    And hope the market has no natural bound or is at risk of getting obsolete. Even where automation is not involved, you can get choked by lack of qualified manpower. This is already happening in the USA, stopping the brain drain from elsewhere. (Especially with the immigration policies.) Outsourcing is essentially growing external competition by your own hand.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
bigtrakzapzap 7y ago
Yeap. And for average people, that leaves a hollowed-out middle-class and not-yet-automated/underpaid tasks like caregiving, teaching, nursing, police, retail sales, retail foodservice, Amazon warehouse stocking, TaskRabbit and Uber driving. People are rightly freaking-out because their existences are threatened while simultaneously others are discussing who's going to be the first trillionaire (much more of the wealth created is only going to the very rich). It seems rational to argue that incel and domestic terrorists, rising homelessness and opioid epidemics are indirectly influenced by the socioeconomic fall-out of rust-belt decay. Infographic video of how bad it really is: https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago

Rich -- by it's nature -- is relative / subjective. If it was easy to "strike it rich", everyone would be rich -- and then we'd just call that "middle class". If we're just saying that social mobility is unusually low now, that's a different story.

Retric 7y ago
People don’t do many things that are easy. Barring unusual health issues, your body makes it really easy to regularly get enough sleep and has several mechanisms to push you in that direction. Yet, most Americans don’t get enough sleep regularly.
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
  Then, my friend, I'd argue it isn't as easy as you think. Maybe it's easy because you're not stressed out. If it was easy for the people who are sleep deprived, they'd probably sleep more.

bduerst 7y ago

The difference is that the wealth from cost-cutting (automation/outsourcing) isn't shared with the middle class, but instead goes to the capital holders. If you look at the rise of the middle class in America it was from new service businesses flourishing, where skilled laborers could gain wealth. As the wealth gap grows, debt encumbers more young families, and the middle class shrinks, there is less disposable income to spend on services.

tracker1 7y ago
I think there is still quite a bit of growth in trade work (building/construction, etc). It's not easily outsourced and pays pretty well. Outside of that, I think we'll reach a point where Software Development as a craft is pushed down in terms of skills for those that don't keep up with ever changing trends. A lot of the middle class is being pushed out, and their pay will go down relatively speaking as "minimum wage" legislation pushes into law, while businesses have been relatively rapidly increasing prices outpacing any wage increases. As to TFAs mention of housing, while the market crash was a disruptive event, it mostly caught those who over-spent. For those who bought planning to stay at least 5-10 years, it didn't change too much. Although when your mortgage is 2x your neighbor who bought at the bottom it may sting. But if you bought at what you could afford, you should be fine. Investment is generally a risk. People tend to want guarantees and it doesn't ever really work that way.
malandrew 7y ago
> The difference is that the wealth from cost-cutting (automation/outsourcing) isn't shared with the middle class As an engineer with equity in the company I work for, I benefit and I'm middle class. I think there is also a misconception about how much the capital holders actually gain. A lot of automation is deflationary in the sense that it reduces the cost of production, which in turn allows a reduction in the price a product is sold at to capture market share. This allows the firm that is automating to capture a large piece of that market, but at the cost of making that market a lot smaller unless demand is pretty much unbounded. You have to both automate and grow the market for what you've automated to truly make it big.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  And hope the market has no natural bound or is at risk of getting obsolete. Even where automation is not involved, you can get choked by lack of qualified manpower. This is already happening in the USA, stopping the brain drain from elsewhere. (Especially with the immigration policies.) Outsourcing is essentially growing external competition by your own hand.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

bigtrakzapzap 7y ago

Yeap. And for average people, that leaves a hollowed-out middle-class and not-yet-automated/underpaid tasks like caregiving, teaching, nursing, police, retail sales, retail foodservice, Amazon warehouse stocking, TaskRabbit and Uber driving. People are rightly freaking-out because their existences are threatened while simultaneously others are discussing who's going to be the first trillionaire (much more of the wealth created is only going to the very rich). It seems rational to argue that incel and domestic terrorists, rising homelessness and opioid epidemics are indirectly influenced by the socioeconomic fall-out of rust-belt decay. Infographic video of how bad it really is: https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM