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One item in particular you note is that Recruiters are "Not Worth It" But also disclose that you got scared off of the $15k/fee and haven't tried that route.
by aresant 7y ago
One item in particular you note is that Recruiters are "Not Worth It"
But also disclose that you got scared off of the $15k/fee and haven't tried that route.
In my experience the right recruiter can combine the utility of the "First-degree friends" and "Referrals" sections you list out.
I used to be anti-recruiter until we made it a point to "recruit a recruiter" and qualify them as hard as we would if we were looking for an internal role.
Interviewing recruiters through a process landed us a recruiter that is well known and respected in his niche, has built trust with dozens of candidates, and delivered strong hires.
We've gotten 6 amazing people in ~6 months and from an investment return basis I can't think of better money that we've spent.
The product side improvements that the new team members are delivering + reducing the brain damage you go through with bootstrapping hiring are high return investment categories in my view.
And the punchline is I think you $15k/hire is off - we've averaged $45k per hire (30% of first year) for engineering & sales talent in the $120 - 200k/yr range.
PS - As others have commented the "We spent less than $1,000 on hiring" should probably be amended, it weakens the rest of what is a very good article on boostrapping hiring!
- com2kid 7y agoI'll second this, I've worked with a few really good recruiters. Most of them are so-so, but the great ones are great and can find amazing candidates in a matter of days. You are basically paying to hire someone whose only job is to keep in touch with great people. The so-so recruiters go through LinkedIn, the best recruiter I ever worked with, when I told her the type of person I was looking for, had someone immediately in mind and got back to me the next day with a phone number.
- seibelj 7y agoI will third this, I have a specific recruiter who works at an agency who I find superb. I always use her for hiring if possible. She finds solid candidates and takes the time to understand what you need, works her network, filters out what you don't like, and pitches your company properly. Well worth the fee if you can get the right person!
- mandeepj 7y ago> got back to me the next day with a phone number That means when your recruiter will leave - he\she will take your employees along
- andrewstuart 7y agoBoy recruiters sure do have a shonky reputation - is it deserved? Why the heck would I, as a recruiter, be so willing to shit in my own nest? Treat your clients - former and present with respect and integrity and you'll continue to get work into the future. Value money over good relationships and you'll soon be out of work. The thing that bugs me is that this is self evident, yet people keep assuming recruiters would behave this badly.
- mandeepj 7y agoSorry. I will try to balance it a little - a bit of poaching can happen with each of your employees' departure.
- andrewstuart 7y agoIf you are not my client then I will happily poach your people till you have none left. If you are my client, then I will only find a job for your employees if the employee in question has already left the company, or if the client has explicitly said to me "can you find a job for this employee who has left us?" Rules - there's rules for how to behave with integrity.
- username90 7y ago> If you are not my client then I will happily poach your people till you have none left. That was his point, as soon as your client is no longer your client you poach their engineers on behalf of your new clients. It might not work exactly like that with you, but I bet a lot of recruiters have no moral qualms about poaching from an ex-client.
- 7y ago
- megaremote 7y ago> You are basically paying to hire someone whose only job is to keep in touch with great people. And all the other companies they work for.
- OJFord 7y agoHow should a candidate filter for (or deliberately seek) such a recruiter?
- cosmodisk 7y agoA good recruiter knows his shit. I have a contact on LinkedIn,who specialises in Salesforce recruitment. He probably knows more about Salesforce than an average consultant he's trying to place.The guy buys and reads books on the subject,tries to understand new features and etc.Also seems to be able to cut through a lot of crap companies and candidates try to pull on him occasionally. He is the opposite of the idiot,who contacted me and asked to sign NDA before he would discuss the job,even though the same job ad was on their website(go figure?!). Opposite of those who have no idea about the industry they operating in( i.e. to be able to recruit SAP consultants, I'd expect a bit more than 'this thing comes from Germany').A good recruiter would give a balanced overview of the company,what things you might like,how they operate and etc.This is the opposite of those who paint everything in pink and promise unicorns.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jvagner 7y agoHiring a recruiter is as hard as hiring other employees... but if you need to hire a bunch of people, it could easily be a good investment. Thing is, a lot of companies open the doors to a number of recruiters and get swamped.
- BurningFrog 7y agoSo... sounds like what you really need is a recruiter recruiter! But how do you find a good one?
- PeterisP 7y agoWell, since they got 10 employees by spending time instead of lots of money (e.g. at least 10 x $15k), then it may well be a good tradeoff for a company/founder that's (relatively) time-rich/cash-poor.
- TylerE 7y agoIf you’re cash poor why the hell are you based in SF? It’s insanity.
- MarkMarine 7y agoThe talent pool? I was hiring in LA and the pool was an inch deep and a mile wide. Lots of shifting through the bad to get to the good, and then good luck competing with google, Netflix, and to some degree Snapchat.
- gwm83 7y agoDisagree, many more companies are comfortable with remote, and a LOT more employees are happy to work outside of the coast these days. The traditional tech hubs in the US are oversaturated and cannot deliver cost of living value anymore.
- jbergens 7y agoThey only got 6 engineers and I am not sure their method would have scaled if they needed a few more. Since they had investment money it might have been better to spend more to find people faster.
- theptip 7y agoI agree, if you have 10 hires to make in a quarter then the recruiter fee starts to be eye-watering (better to bring that role in-house), but for your first 5-10 engineers (with say 2-4 reqs open at any given time) I found recruiters to be the best source after direct referrals. Note that finding a good recruiter is hard, especially as a very early-stage startup. We spent a long time digging through mediocre resumes until we happened upon some good recruiters. It seems mostly trial and error so I'd recommend re-rolling a few times before making a judgement on recruiters as a general strategy. The benefit of the commission model is that you pay nothing if you make no hires, so that makes it lower risk to try a few interviews from a new recruiter.
- numismatex 7y agoRecruiters are the worst. Spam marketing is what is these days. A waste of time for you, them, and the "potential hires". You get what you pay for. Staff is one thing. Using a third party recruiter is shite. HR flacks are also up there, vying for to be the worst. Usually doesn't know shit from shinola, never worked in a relevant industry -- this is why hiring from within and letting your staff run the show is important.
- jammygit 7y agoMy LinkedIn is full of spammy recruiter messages. Every message is a copy pasted blurb with the name substituted. I like to compare it to online dating: those poor women getting dozens (or hundreds on the dating sites) of messages by people just spamming messages to as many people as possible. Maybe one day I’ll meet a recruiter who has actual value