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Why have a cap at all? It doesn't cost any more to have equipment sending packets as it does to have the equipment idle. The real world of data is generally bi

by kabdib 7y ago

Why have a cap at all? It doesn't cost any more to have equipment sending packets as it does to have the equipment idle. The real world of data is generally billed at the 95th percentile of traffic consumption, usually with a commit to buy a certain amount of traffic. So you pay for a specific rate of data, the vendor provisions equipment to handle the agreed upon rate, and then you can do traffic at that rate forever. If you go over your rate, you talk to your vendor. I don't know of any equipment whose natural operation is to handle a certain amount of traffic, then shut down until the next billing cycle comes around. Data caps are a measure invented to extract money, not serve customers or packets. If the cable companies were worried about fairness, they'd really be speaking in terms of bandwidth reservations at peak times and encouraging use during off-peak hours, and similar things. They're not, it's just a money grab.

aeorgnoieang 7y ago
> It doesn't cost any more to have equipment sending packets as it does to have the equipment idle. I'm not sure that's even true. I'd expect power consumption as well as 'wear and tear' to be less, and possibly significantly so, at idle versus continuous use. > Data caps are a measure invented to extract money, not serve customers or packets. Some people will definitely test the limits of anything that's supposedly unlimited. I imagine you're partially correct but I suspect data caps are the most comprehensible product attribute for ISPs to limit the relevant costs. > If the cable companies were worried about fairness, they'd really be speaking in terms of bandwidth reservations at peak times and encouraging use during off-peak hours, and similar things. I'd imagine that'd be an even harder sell than congestion pricing for motor vehicle traffic. It is mostly just a 'fact' of the world that almost everyone is going to want bandwidth at the same times. The costs of transitioning to any other arrangement are considerable. And Netflix is probably the player most able to adjust. I'm not sure if they still do, but they did at one time host a lot of their content in ISP data centers.
- kabdib 7y ago
  Wear and tear is generally not an issue with network equipment. You buy it, you run it until it depreciates or breaks or becomes too much trouble, you replace it. I've never heard an argument of "don't run that thing too hard, it'll shorten its life". (If you do hear this, it's usually a sign of inadequate cooling). Data caps are a poor tool for handling congestion. They're a great tool for frightening people into keeping their load low(and costs for the provider down), or for sucking more money out of people. They don't do a damn thing for immediate load. Me? I have Comcast business class -- they guarantee me a specific bit rate and I can nail it up at that rate all month long and they don't care. For folks not paying for this service class, Comcast has bandwidth reservation and all the anti-congestion tools they need, they just don't use them -- they get more money out of people's behavior towards data caps.
  - aeorgnoieang 7y ago
    I think data caps might be the best business tool for ISPs offering services to consumers. After learning about how business Internet services are sold and priced, it's not so surprising that they're more 'rational'.
rayiner 7y ago
Those guaranteed rate agreements are tens of times more expensive than consumer internet connections. The whole reason why consumer internet connections are so much cheaper is that they're based on the premise that most people will have bursty behavior. (Download a 25MB facebook page at 400 mbps then idle.) For such usages, it's far better to let everyone achieve high burst rates sometimes, and then implement policies to discourage streaming at high rates all the time, then to limit everyone to the maximum guaranteed bandwidth the network can handle.

by kabdib 7y ago

aeorgnoieang 7y ago

> It doesn't cost any more to have equipment sending packets as it does to have the equipment idle. I'm not sure that's even true. I'd expect power consumption as well as 'wear and tear' to be less, and possibly significantly so, at idle versus continuous use. > Data caps are a measure invented to extract money, not serve customers or packets. Some people will definitely test the limits of anything that's supposedly unlimited. I imagine you're partially correct but I suspect data caps are the most comprehensible product attribute for ISPs to limit the relevant costs. > If the cable companies were worried about fairness, they'd really be speaking in terms of bandwidth reservations at peak times and encouraging use during off-peak hours, and similar things. I'd imagine that'd be an even harder sell than congestion pricing for motor vehicle traffic. It is mostly just a 'fact' of the world that almost everyone is going to want bandwidth at the same times. The costs of transitioning to any other arrangement are considerable. And Netflix is probably the player most able to adjust. I'm not sure if they still do, but they did at one time host a lot of their content in ISP data centers.

kabdib 7y ago
Wear and tear is generally not an issue with network equipment. You buy it, you run it until it depreciates or breaks or becomes too much trouble, you replace it. I've never heard an argument of "don't run that thing too hard, it'll shorten its life". (If you do hear this, it's usually a sign of inadequate cooling). Data caps are a poor tool for handling congestion. They're a great tool for frightening people into keeping their load low(and costs for the provider down), or for sucking more money out of people. They don't do a damn thing for immediate load. Me? I have Comcast business class -- they guarantee me a specific bit rate and I can nail it up at that rate all month long and they don't care. For folks not paying for this service class, Comcast has bandwidth reservation and all the anti-congestion tools they need, they just don't use them -- they get more money out of people's behavior towards data caps.
- aeorgnoieang 7y ago
  I think data caps might be the best business tool for ISPs offering services to consumers. After learning about how business Internet services are sold and priced, it's not so surprising that they're more 'rational'.

rayiner 7y ago

Those guaranteed rate agreements are tens of times more expensive than consumer internet connections. The whole reason why consumer internet connections are so much cheaper is that they're based on the premise that most people will have bursty behavior. (Download a 25MB facebook page at 400 mbps then idle.) For such usages, it's far better to let everyone achieve high burst rates sometimes, and then implement policies to discourage streaming at high rates all the time, then to limit everyone to the maximum guaranteed bandwidth the network can handle.