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Do you not find it concerning that someone at the 90th income percentile in one of the richest countries in the world, in stuck in a socio-economic system where

Do you not find it concerning that someone at the 90th income percentile in one of the richest countries in the world, in stuck in a socio-economic system where they have to be in significant debt to be able to obtain two fundamental human rights - shelter and transport? Either something is wrong with the social system which is making individuals to spend so much. Or something is wrong with the economic system, which is not providing enough income. Or something else wrong?

Udo 7y ago
In short, yes, I do find it concerning. Germany at least has a social safety net (as opposed to, say, the US), but making use of it is often dehumanizing and complex by design. Of course owning a nice house and an upscale car is a few rungs removed from having basic shelter and transport. One of the middle class problems I do see is that owning your daily stuff (like a house and a car) - and hence gaining some measure of independence - is increasingly difficult, even for relatively high earners. I think another poster here got it right when they said that being upper class ultimately means being a rentier instead of a rentee.
majewsky 7y ago
> they have to be in significant debt to be able to obtain two fundamental human rights - shelter and transport The fallacy in this argument is assuming that if you cannot buy your own house and car, there is literally no other way to obtain shelter and transport. I live in a big German city, though not quite in the city center. (My commute into the city center is 20 minutes by tram.) My monthly expenses for shelter and transport (not counting long-distance trips) come out to 500 € in total. With other non-negotiable expenses (food and insurances), this goes up to about 750 €. Rounding up a bit because there are always unexpected bills, a salary of 1000 € is the minimum that I need to live comfortably, if slightly frugally.

Udo 7y ago

In short, yes, I do find it concerning. Germany at least has a social safety net (as opposed to, say, the US), but making use of it is often dehumanizing and complex by design. Of course owning a nice house and an upscale car is a few rungs removed from having basic shelter and transport. One of the middle class problems I do see is that owning your daily stuff (like a house and a car) - and hence gaining some measure of independence - is increasingly difficult, even for relatively high earners. I think another poster here got it right when they said that being upper class ultimately means being a rentier instead of a rentee.

majewsky 7y ago

> they have to be in significant debt to be able to obtain two fundamental human rights - shelter and transport The fallacy in this argument is assuming that if you cannot buy your own house and car, there is literally no other way to obtain shelter and transport. I live in a big German city, though not quite in the city center. (My commute into the city center is 20 minutes by tram.) My monthly expenses for shelter and transport (not counting long-distance trips) come out to 500 € in total. With other non-negotiable expenses (food and insurances), this goes up to about 750 €. Rounding up a bit because there are always unexpected bills, a salary of 1000 € is the minimum that I need to live comfortably, if slightly frugally.