4 ms·

Very important topic. If more ppl were aware of how they give feedback we would benefit a lot; both online and in our workplaces.

tempguy9999 7y ago
Not nearly as much as if more people were willing to listen to feedback. I'm never-endingly amazed at the degree people don't want to hear. I greatly value the company of those that do, and return the favour.
- codingdave 7y ago
  It might be worth asking why they don't want to hear it. Do they feel attacked? Are they suffering from imposter syndrome, and any feedback sets them down a path of low self-esteem? Do they simply not trust that their team has faith in them and is trying to build up a higher level of skills? Or is it actually a flaw, where they think they are right and everyone else is wrong... so you need to address that before you can hit any other points in your feedback. Almost all communication, and really almost everything in business, go better when everyone thinks about how people on the receiving end will take it. Which is almost always about empathy for their perspective, and understanding the personal drivers and goals of your team.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    Let's put aside my own failings of sensitivity and similar. I acknowledge them and that they are a barrier to criticising other people. If they have rejected what you say then in many cases they don't want to explain why because that gets at the very reason they are rejecting it. "I wrote it" isn't a valid reason for rejecting an offer of a code review. "We're using this tech" even though the boss-man mandating it doesn't understand its cost or benefits. He just read an article on XSLT and we have to use it. "If you run this script every night it'll report those errors in the morning and you can fix them before they hit the customer. Response: "no", and no system was put in place to prevent them. All real examples. There is no obvious reason for many rejections, and I suspect a lot of the time that's because there is no good reason. If there is, tell me! then I can understand better. But that's rare. (Another rambly answer I'm afraid)
    - codingdave 7y ago
      Reasons for human behavior aren't always good reasons... but they are reasons. If you are putting a judgment on their reasons, that in itself is a barrier to good teamwork. Their reasons might be bad, and might stem from their own personality flaws. But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you need to deal with them no matter how silly you may feel they are. Sometimes people don't even know their own reasons, or don't realize what they are doing. This is where the squishy/warm fuzzy conversations help, as you can talk about what people are really feeling about the team and the work. Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think of every conversation with your co-workers as if it were a retrospective on your working relationship with them, and it will help. So let us go through one of your example -- the boss mandates using a tech because he read an article. And you find it to be a bad choice for valid, analytical reasons. So you likely are approaching him with a "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude, and he may be responding with an underlying attitude of "Screw you, I'm your boss.", because he has a strong ego and you challenged it. So you both are annoyed and ungiving. Instead, maybe go in with a different approach of asking to understand why that tech helps the business, and truly listen to the answers, then compare/contrast your preferred tech with the reasons given. Then the conversation isn't about "Tech X is wrong", it is about underlying reasons and business needs. Which will be less likely to trigger defensive reactions from the boss. Ultimately, you cannot change other people. But you can change your own approach to other people.
      - tempguy9999 7y ago
        > But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you need to deal with them no matter how silly you may feel they are I simply cannot disagree. I just do not know how. > Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think [...] and it will help I'll chew over that carefully, thanks. > So let us go through one of your example... that was a particularly nasty example for me to give because there was no solution. He would not listen to what I had to say. He thought XSLT was a sort of magic. The cost is still hitting the company years later as they transition away from it. Over that and a related issue, I resigned. Sometimes you must take it on the chin. I appreciate what you say, and the decent intent behind it and as mentioned will chew it over. Thank you.

tempguy9999 7y ago

Not nearly as much as if more people were willing to listen to feedback. I'm never-endingly amazed at the degree people don't want to hear. I greatly value the company of those that do, and return the favour.

codingdave 7y ago
It might be worth asking why they don't want to hear it. Do they feel attacked? Are they suffering from imposter syndrome, and any feedback sets them down a path of low self-esteem? Do they simply not trust that their team has faith in them and is trying to build up a higher level of skills? Or is it actually a flaw, where they think they are right and everyone else is wrong... so you need to address that before you can hit any other points in your feedback. Almost all communication, and really almost everything in business, go better when everyone thinks about how people on the receiving end will take it. Which is almost always about empathy for their perspective, and understanding the personal drivers and goals of your team.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  Let's put aside my own failings of sensitivity and similar. I acknowledge them and that they are a barrier to criticising other people. If they have rejected what you say then in many cases they don't want to explain why because that gets at the very reason they are rejecting it. "I wrote it" isn't a valid reason for rejecting an offer of a code review. "We're using this tech" even though the boss-man mandating it doesn't understand its cost or benefits. He just read an article on XSLT and we have to use it. "If you run this script every night it'll report those errors in the morning and you can fix them before they hit the customer. Response: "no", and no system was put in place to prevent them. All real examples. There is no obvious reason for many rejections, and I suspect a lot of the time that's because there is no good reason. If there is, tell me! then I can understand better. But that's rare. (Another rambly answer I'm afraid)
  - codingdave 7y ago
    Reasons for human behavior aren't always good reasons... but they are reasons. If you are putting a judgment on their reasons, that in itself is a barrier to good teamwork. Their reasons might be bad, and might stem from their own personality flaws. But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you need to deal with them no matter how silly you may feel they are. Sometimes people don't even know their own reasons, or don't realize what they are doing. This is where the squishy/warm fuzzy conversations help, as you can talk about what people are really feeling about the team and the work. Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think of every conversation with your co-workers as if it were a retrospective on your working relationship with them, and it will help. So let us go through one of your example -- the boss mandates using a tech because he read an article. And you find it to be a bad choice for valid, analytical reasons. So you likely are approaching him with a "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude, and he may be responding with an underlying attitude of "Screw you, I'm your boss.", because he has a strong ego and you challenged it. So you both are annoyed and ungiving. Instead, maybe go in with a different approach of asking to understand why that tech helps the business, and truly listen to the answers, then compare/contrast your preferred tech with the reasons given. Then the conversation isn't about "Tech X is wrong", it is about underlying reasons and business needs. Which will be less likely to trigger defensive reactions from the boss. Ultimately, you cannot change other people. But you can change your own approach to other people.
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      > But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you need to deal with them no matter how silly you may feel they are I simply cannot disagree. I just do not know how. > Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think [...] and it will help I'll chew over that carefully, thanks. > So let us go through one of your example... that was a particularly nasty example for me to give because there was no solution. He would not listen to what I had to say. He thought XSLT was a sort of magic. The cost is still hitting the company years later as they transition away from it. Over that and a related issue, I resigned. Sometimes you must take it on the chin. I appreciate what you say, and the decent intent behind it and as mentioned will chew it over. Thank you.