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Today his electric bill was $9, but has he saved money overall? It reads like you're saying you're glad you didn't sign up for the service, but you also paid a

Today his electric bill was $9, but has he saved money overall? It reads like you're saying you're glad you didn't sign up for the service, but you also paid a ton for power today - just amortized over the average $/kWh your power company charges you. The difference is that you don't have the option to reduce your consumption today to save money. If large numbers of the population were signed up to a market rate service, it would go a long way towards preventing these spikes, and will probably be necessary as we shift to a higher renewable share making the pricing far less stable.

reallydontask 7y ago
> The difference is that you don't have the option to reduce your consumption today to save money. are you saying that in Texas you pay a fix charge for electricity regardless of usage? Assuming that this is not the case, it seems to me that should he/she take the same actions as said friend there would be a reduction to the bill too, just a lot less significant, due to the price being a lot less
danmaz74 7y ago
Don't forget that his friend had to endure a crazy hot day without AC - and still paid much more than usual for electricity. Most people don't want to gamble on these things.
- reitzensteinm 7y ago
  Running the AC on that day is not expensive due to financial agreements. It's intrinsically a resource intensive thing to do. When you sign up for a fixed rate, it's baked in to the price that you will fire up your AC if you feel like it even when the grid is at capacity and power is extremely expensive. Paying market rate doesn't mean you are blocked from firing up the AC. It might cost you $100 during a heat wave, but you've paid your power company $100 less throughout the year because you haven't been paying in instalments for your peak consumption days. Being able to say fuck it, I'd rather be uncomfortable and save $100 is empowerment, not a burden. In aggregate, those that make this decision would provide a lot of economic benefit. The peak is reduced and whole power plants can be decommissioned.
  - carlmr 7y ago
    >Being able to say fuck it, I'd rather be uncomfortable and save $100 is empowerment, not a burden. Also you can decide to hang out at the mall until prices go down.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      Some years ago (around five?) there was a big heat wave in Shanghai, and the subway stations filled with people who didn't want to pay for their own air conditioning.
      - carlmr 7y ago
        That's a good thing, it drives down peak demand and increases overall energy efficiency.
        sokoloff 7y ago
        It comes at the cost of many people wasting a portion of their lifetime waiting in a subway rather than doing almost anything else that they'd probably prefer doing. For every 60K people that spent 12 hours sheltered in the subway, 80 human-years of life was consumed.
technofiend 7y ago
His use case and mine are very different. For one I don't work from home, have an old home and cool it with window units. When I got home at 6 or 7 last night it was 90+ degrees in my bedroom. I'm not going to risk paying spot prices and having to wait to run my AC because it takes hours to cool down as it is. He can run his AC when it's cheap and weather a few hours of it being off if he has to. I hear you about possibly saving money the rest of the time. It's worth considering if I can get the data. I can tell you today my use is so low in the winter I've had the power company come out and disassemble my meter because they thought it was hacked. The shoulder months around summer is when I could save the most. It's just whether that savings outpaces peak prices and frankly whether I want to take that risk since IMHO this kind of thing is only going to get worse.

reallydontask 7y ago

> The difference is that you don't have the option to reduce your consumption today to save money. are you saying that in Texas you pay a fix charge for electricity regardless of usage? Assuming that this is not the case, it seems to me that should he/she take the same actions as said friend there would be a reduction to the bill too, just a lot less significant, due to the price being a lot less

danmaz74 7y ago

Don't forget that his friend had to endure a crazy hot day without AC - and still paid much more than usual for electricity. Most people don't want to gamble on these things.

reitzensteinm 7y ago
Running the AC on that day is not expensive due to financial agreements. It's intrinsically a resource intensive thing to do. When you sign up for a fixed rate, it's baked in to the price that you will fire up your AC if you feel like it even when the grid is at capacity and power is extremely expensive. Paying market rate doesn't mean you are blocked from firing up the AC. It might cost you $100 during a heat wave, but you've paid your power company $100 less throughout the year because you haven't been paying in instalments for your peak consumption days. Being able to say fuck it, I'd rather be uncomfortable and save $100 is empowerment, not a burden. In aggregate, those that make this decision would provide a lot of economic benefit. The peak is reduced and whole power plants can be decommissioned.
- carlmr 7y ago
  >Being able to say fuck it, I'd rather be uncomfortable and save $100 is empowerment, not a burden. Also you can decide to hang out at the mall until prices go down.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    Some years ago (around five?) there was a big heat wave in Shanghai, and the subway stations filled with people who didn't want to pay for their own air conditioning.
    - carlmr 7y ago
      That's a good thing, it drives down peak demand and increases overall energy efficiency.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        It comes at the cost of many people wasting a portion of their lifetime waiting in a subway rather than doing almost anything else that they'd probably prefer doing. For every 60K people that spent 12 hours sheltered in the subway, 80 human-years of life was consumed.

technofiend 7y ago

His use case and mine are very different. For one I don't work from home, have an old home and cool it with window units. When I got home at 6 or 7 last night it was 90+ degrees in my bedroom. I'm not going to risk paying spot prices and having to wait to run my AC because it takes hours to cool down as it is. He can run his AC when it's cheap and weather a few hours of it being off if he has to. I hear you about possibly saving money the rest of the time. It's worth considering if I can get the data. I can tell you today my use is so low in the winter I've had the power company come out and disassemble my meter because they thought it was hacked. The shoulder months around summer is when I could save the most. It's just whether that savings outpaces peak prices and frankly whether I want to take that risk since IMHO this kind of thing is only going to get worse.