9 ms·

Kevinism

91 points by rococode 7y ago

aaron695 7y ago
Freakonomics 2010 discusses this. Yes you can tell about from the child from their name. They further that and talk how more educated parents chose names that aren't broken, then the poorer parents eventually see that as a status symbol so follow along and break that name, so the cycle continues. I believe this is just the next step of lower social economic parents cargo culting originality and misspeling names or picking names from overseas.
King-Aaron 7y ago
> The word "Alpha-Kevin" (combination of Alpha male and the given name), as being representative of a particularly unintelligent young person Alpha-Kevin is a term I'll have to use more often
- peterburkimsher 7y ago
  This is the first time I heard that about the name Kevin! I've heard a similar stereotype about "Chad" though.
mosselman 7y ago
The funny thing is that Kevin is not a very praised name in general either: https://www.reddit.com/r/StoriesAboutKevin/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StoriesAboutKevin/ “What is a Kevin? A Kevin is someone who consistently or greatly shows a complete lack of intelligence through incompetence of social and societal norms, or is purposefully antagonistic in their poor decision making. Remember the kid in your class who would constantly get in trouble for really dumb things? He was probably a Kevin. Family members, friends, coworkers, and classmates can all become Kevins.”
- benj111 7y ago
  As a Brit, this is the Kevin that springs to mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_the_Teenager https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_the_Teenager Or perhaps an example is better https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY
  - Lio 7y ago
    Even that meaning of "Kevin" has changed. Harry Enfield's Kevin the Teenager has very middle class parents (for those not from the UK we regard "middle class" as describing a much wider social group than say in the USA where it might be based on income. It's basically not working class and not a member of the aristocracy. Could be a QC, a CEO or school teacher.) The earlier meaning was more pejorative and something closer to a being a "chav". Like chavs in the early 00s were supposed to wear fake Burberry check products, kevs were supposed to wear white socks and black shoes. I have no idea why.
    - msla 7y ago
      The American middle class is pretty broad, too. MDs are middle class, as are contractors and most, if not all, office workers; there's a divide between upper middle class and lower middle class, however. > for those not from the UK we regard "middle class" as describing a much wider social group than say in the USA where it might be based on income. It's basically not working class and not a member of the aristocracy. Could be a QC, a CEO or school teacher. I don't know what a QC is, but a CEO of a non-Fortune 500 company would probably be upper middle class, and a school teacher would be lower middle class unless they're in a very expensive private school. I don't know that it's strictly based on income, necessarily, as much as how much independence the job provides; whether it's a job or a career, in other words.
      - Lio 7y ago
        A QC is Queen’s Council[1] Actually your definition is not that dissimilar to what we’d understand too. I think it’s not too different to white collar vs blue collar. Attitude to education fits in there somewhere too. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Counsel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Counsel
  - peteretep 7y ago
    Growing up, "kev" was a synonym for chav, townie, ned. At my waaaaaay-over-privileged rugby-playing school, we called football "kevball".
- ohashi 7y ago
  As a Kevin, reading the original story that spawned that subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/219w2o/whos_the_dumbest_person_youve_ever_met/cgbhkwp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/219w2o/whos_the_...) is pretty entertaining. I don't know that I've ever felt discriminated based on my name, but I've had people tell me things (namely in Germany/Germans) about the association.
- amyjess 7y ago
  Y'know, I'm aware that the "Kevin" meme originated with an askreddit story (which someone else linked below), but I'm wondering if the reason it took off the way it did had anything to do with Kevin from the US version of The Office, who fits that stereotype to a T. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Malone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Malone
splitbrain 7y ago
What's missing in this article is the aspect of escapism. The mentioned names Ronny and Mandy were especially popular in East Germany for kids born in the late 70ies, early 80ies. I think many parents picked "exotic" names for their kids in some sense of longing for the places they could never hope to see. Maybe some simple way to be part of a larger world? I could see the same mechanism in socio-economic disadvantaged parents. Their world is limited by money, not borders, but they still want to be part of the larger world.
jchampem 7y ago
It also applies here in France, especially northern/eastern parts close to Germany. Well, not for Chantal, which is not a very exotic name here.
- klez 7y ago
  Somewhat in Italy as well. There's a scene in an 80s movie where two "coatti" (I can't really find a translation for this word. Let's say "white trash" from Rome) are deciding what name to choose for their hypothetical son. The guy would like to call him Kevin because "it gives a sense of respect". Here's the scene (somewhat NSFW, I guess) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GUyKG96xlsk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GUyKG96xlsk
- zuuow 7y ago
  Also in Spain. Kevin, Joshua, etc automatically mark you as being a gypsy. No Chantal here though, but names like Jennifer or Yolanda are arguably used to that effect too. Very, very surprised though to see this as an international phenomenon.
  - overkalix 7y ago
    I'd argue these names are more representative of cani/quillo culture than gypsies though. The phenomenon is pretty universal, it has to do with the formation of lumpenproletariat.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  Same in the Netherlands. There are a lot of names that will instantly identify you as someone born from parents hailing from the lower socio-economic classes. If you meet a boy named Jayden (the present day Dutch Kevin I guess?), you can be pretty sure his parents didn't go to college. This information should be irrelevant, but in reality it is used by whoever they meet, consciously or unconsciously. The problem with these imported and new names is that it places a long lasting, nigh indelible stigma on their bearer. A label that everyone can see — yet you'll never know if it affects someone's opinion of you. All you might know is that the net effect of your name is negative until society changes its perception of it (i.e., gets used to it).
Escapado 7y ago
My name is Kevin. I'm 27 and I'm from (west) germany. Most people I get to know will bring the topic up. I got a master's degree in physics and I have heard people say something like 'your name doesn't fit your profile at all' more times than I can count. I've seen girls in my sphere discard guys on Tinder partly due to being named Kevin. People do joke about the name and that's ok. It's not terrible but it isn't great either.
- artfucker1996 7y ago
  same. being named kevin is a hard life in germany, but sometimes i can't help but wonder if it actually benefited me in some way. it tought me a great lesson about people being spiteful without realising it, just because it's been established by the social environment that you live in. while some people are just consciously being dickheads, others might have this negative stigma associated with the name Kevin without ever meeting a person named Kevin. to me this is fascinating and in my opionion extends in some ways to people being racist or homophobic without ever meeting people of the "other group".
  - nothrabannosir 7y ago
    > ... people being racist or homophobic without ever meeting people of the "other group". In my limited experience, this is the norm, not an exception.
    - moomin 7y ago
      What is even more entertaining is that when they do know people from the other group, they have a habit of treating them as shining exceptions to the rule, not questioning whether or not the rule is even valid.
      - foozed 7y ago
        "no, that's different. [name] is my friend!"
      - 7y ago
nailer 7y ago
The article also mentioned Horst as having a particular association - what was the association?
- 1011_1101 7y ago
  Basically the same as the other mentioned: Moron, idiot or dimwit. But the actual names used vary from generations and regions. Also I would say these name insults are mostly used by children and teenagers. As a somewhat effective workaround to avoid getting punished for using the actual swearwords.
- brazzy 7y ago
  Stupidity or clumsiness. Apparently it can't be tracked to any specific origin, the name just went completely out of fashion and the association seems to have emerged around 2000. Here's a German article about it: https://www.welt.de/kultur/article163980590/Der-Herbst-des-Horst-wie-ein-Name-zum-Witz-wurde.html https://www.welt.de/kultur/article163980590/Der-Herbst-des-H...
- Tomte 7y ago
  Friends called their unborn "Horst" so that people (including themselves) had a name with which they could to refer to the future child, but at the same time the choice made obvious that it would not be the real name given after birth and that they did not want to disclose it beforehand. I suppose that says something about the name's image.
Tharkun 7y ago
Naming things is hard. Naming people is harder. Many (most?) expecting parents spend hours researching names online or in "1000 baby name ideas"-books. My parents love my name. I hate it. There are too many of us for names to be a unique identifier. First names are too generic to say anything about us, and they're usually assigned at birth, before any of our traits are known. Family names are even worse; here's your father's last name glued on to yours, for no apparent reason. Or maybe your mother's. Or, if you want, in Belgium, a hyphenated version of both parents', but excluding any hyphenated part of theirs. This somehow implies that family is important, but only a small part of your family? I don't get that in a modern context. Iain M Banks had an interesting take on multi-part names in The Culture, with the naming scheme at least featuring a chosen name. But sadly also including things you have no control over, like place of birth and parentage. Letting everyone pick their own name would be nice. That's apparently already possible in some parts of the world, but not everywhere. And often you can only change it if your name is truly ridiculous or if you share a name with a serial killer or some such.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  It depends on the jurisdiction. In the Netherlands changing your given name(s) is possible if you can convince a judge of its negative impact on you. Gender transitioning is an obvious rationale, but a well-worded explanation of why your current name doesn't match who you are or damages you (e.g., past traumatic experiences, abuse, but also a name simply not suiting you) tends to suffice. It's not something you can get done at a whim or frequently of course. The judge will weigh the needs of society (i.e., to be able to consistently refer to citizens by a constant name in various types of records) against your personal motivation for changing names.
  - ummwhat 7y ago
    The US is much more liberal about this. You have to pay a fee and put in some paperwork and make an announcement in a news paper with a certain amount of readers and a judge will deny requests that violate a very limited set of common sense criteria. Sometimes the judges can get a bit lazy about actually filtering requests. Jesus Christ literally lives in New York.
Nursie 7y ago
From a UK perspective, Kevin is not a very popular name either, and has a bunch of negative associations. "Kev" has been slang for someone from a low socioeconomic background, possibly violent, often paired with "Sharon" or "Tracy" as a female equivalent. So as an aspirational western name I'm not sure it works! At least for the English...
- Lio 7y ago
  Yep, back in the 1980s and 90s "kev" was indeed used as a somewhat derogatory term in the UK. The stereotypical kev was supposed to be seen wearing white, fluffy socks and black shoes (terrible faux pas that) and driving a Ford Capri (badly). At the time this greatly amused me as a child because my well to do Irish grandfather, uncle and cousin were all called Kevin and nothing at all like the stereotype. Not sure if the term "kev" existed as a mild insult in Ireland but they were all aware of us using it... :D
wdroz 7y ago
In some french-speaking countries, script-kiddies are sometime called Kévin. I'm not sure if is a reference to the famous Kevin Mitnick or to Kevin from the movie Home Alone or some kind of Kevinism. These last years, I also hear people using "Jean-Kévin" instead.
toomanybeersies 7y ago
Sounds a lot like Kyle in English speaking countries.
- arethuza 7y ago
  Perhaps apart from Scotland where it is a fairly common part of place names (e.g. Kyle of Lochalsh) - having said that, I don't think it's a very common first name here, perhaps because of that?
  - Sean1708 7y ago
    I'm English and I've also never heard of the name Kyle having any kind of prejudice, might just be an American thing?
    - snth 7y ago
      I've never heard of a negative stereotype about Kyle in America either.
      - thrownblown 7y ago
        Apparently you have yet to fall into the area 51 memehole. The Kyle's are on the vanguard with their +10 Monster Energy buff
    - glhaynes 7y ago
      American, never heard anything bad about the name Kyle.
      - thrownblown 7y ago
        How about Karen? I need to talk to your manager.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      According to https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kyle https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kyle "Kyle is an online caricature [...] "Kyle" is generally presented as rage-filled and aggressive, and he is a fan of Monster Energy Drinks and Axe body spray" It also says, tautologically, that "Kyle jokes parody of a certain kind of person with a set of characteristics one associates with the name"
barking 7y ago
You're better off sticking with the long established names of your culture. My parents picked really boring names (as I thought) for our family. We were named after our grandparents. We used to regularly chastise them for this when we were young. Now I'm glad of it. I could have been called Calvyn.
gpjanik 7y ago
I can confirm that it applies to other countries of the region. I think it's a result of this wild fascination with America that came after the fall of Soviet Union. People westernised quickly and without much reflection upon the process and are giving idiotic names to their kids. "Brajan" (phonetic for Brian) and "Dżesika" (Jessica) are already memes in Poland.
colourgarden 7y ago
"Kevin is not a name but a diagnosis" is a well known saying amongst school teachers here in Germany.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  »Kevin ist kein Name, sondern eine Diagnose!« Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour?
cluoma 7y ago
Interesting. I moved to Germany several years ago and just assumed that the Kevins were because of an interest in Anglo names. I didn't know they had a stigma attached to them. I'm trying to think of something equivalent from Canada, when I was younger, but nothing is really springing to mind.
snarfy 7y ago
I wonder how memes relate to this, like 'scumbag steve' and the various 'karen' jokes.
- schnevets 7y ago
  Yeah, the Karen/Chad/Becky phenomenon really makes me cringe. You'd think with recent culture shifts towards "wholesomeness" and "acceptance", turning someone's name into an insult wouldn't have caught on.
Tomte 7y ago
Another strange difference between countries' perceptions is the Swedish princess Estelle's name. I was on vacation in Sweden shortly thereafter, and while just about every German thought the name atrocious, befitting a prostitute, all the Swedes found it charming.
cryptos 7y ago
There was a funny story going on in 2005: Ferrero changed the face on the packaging of the popular "Kinderschokolade" and many buyers didn't like the new face and were hence calling the boy "Kevin". There was even a campaign "weg mit Kevin" with 20.000 supporters, which handed over a petition to Ferrero. https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/kinderschokolade-wuetender-protest-gegen-das-neue-gesicht-a-389061.html https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/kinderschokolade-wuetender... Translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fkinderschokolade-wuetender-protest-gegen-das-neue-gesicht-a-389061.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
dejawu 7y ago
Fellow Kevin here. While I was doing a fellowship [0] at the US Census Bureau last summer, I noticed a peculiar abundance of other Kevins working there. As a joke, I created this presentation [1] about this phenomenon, which I ended up accidentally showing the chief marketing officer. He loved it. [0] https://www.codingitforward.com/fellowship https://www.codingitforward.com/fellowship [1] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/117Q3zuyWulkDGcGXp4BdJP36Tx72Wk9CQEv8-Sen64Y/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/117Q3zuyWulkDGcGXp4Bd...
- nyolfen 7y ago
  you guys should unionize
  - iKevinShah 7y ago
    where do I sign up?
KatarinaGrumy 7y ago
Oh, it refers not only to German people( Ukrainian people tend to give their children exotic names too.
jkmcf 7y ago
I found this on my desk one day in the 90s... https://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/16/opinion/observer-the-kevin-excess.html https://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/16/opinion/observer-the-kevi...
bonoboTP 7y ago
In Hungary the equivalent would be Roma families naming their children after foreign soap opera characters (e.g. Bobby [Ewing] in the 90s), footballers and other famous people, especially Latin American ones. By law names have to conform to Hungarian orthography (except if the parents have immigrant background) Examples: Rikárdó, Armandó, Rodrigó, Dzsenifer (Jennifer), Dzsesszika (Jessica), Brájen (Brian), Dzsásztin (Justin), Brendon, Szamanta, Eszmeralda Seems to be a universal thing across many countries that people in low socio-economic classes (black people in the US or Roma in Eastern Europe) give more, let's say, "unusual" names to their kids.
chaoticmass 7y ago
The article mentions a Uncyclopedia satire article helped kick off media coverage of this phenomenon. Here is the article: https://de.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Kevinismus https://de.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Kevinismus
kschiffer 7y ago
Fellow (German) Kevin here. I like how this topic is frequently being brought up again in loose intervals as if it is important to remind everyone every once in a while. I can confirm that there is indeed a stigma associated with the name. As a white young male though, being grumpy about such thing would be quite disproportionate. In that sense, it sort of makes me get an idea of what it could be like to be ridiculed for something one has no control or responsibility about.

91 points by rococode 7y ago

Freakonomics 2010 discusses this. Yes you can tell about from the child from their name. They further that and talk how more educated parents chose names that aren't broken, then the poorer parents eventually see that as a status symbol so follow along and break that name, so the cycle continues. I believe this is just the next step of lower social economic parents cargo culting originality and misspeling names or picking names from overseas.

King-Aaron 7y ago

> The word "Alpha-Kevin" (combination of Alpha male and the given name), as being representative of a particularly unintelligent young person Alpha-Kevin is a term I'll have to use more often

peterburkimsher 7y ago
This is the first time I heard that about the name Kevin! I've heard a similar stereotype about "Chad" though.

mosselman 7y ago

The funny thing is that Kevin is not a very praised name in general either: https://www.reddit.com/r/StoriesAboutKevin/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StoriesAboutKevin/ “What is a Kevin? A Kevin is someone who consistently or greatly shows a complete lack of intelligence through incompetence of social and societal norms, or is purposefully antagonistic in their poor decision making. Remember the kid in your class who would constantly get in trouble for really dumb things? He was probably a Kevin. Family members, friends, coworkers, and classmates can all become Kevins.”

benj111 7y ago
As a Brit, this is the Kevin that springs to mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_the_Teenager https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_the_Teenager Or perhaps an example is better https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY
- Lio 7y ago
  Even that meaning of "Kevin" has changed. Harry Enfield's Kevin the Teenager has very middle class parents (for those not from the UK we regard "middle class" as describing a much wider social group than say in the USA where it might be based on income. It's basically not working class and not a member of the aristocracy. Could be a QC, a CEO or school teacher.) The earlier meaning was more pejorative and something closer to a being a "chav". Like chavs in the early 00s were supposed to wear fake Burberry check products, kevs were supposed to wear white socks and black shoes. I have no idea why.
  - msla 7y ago
    The American middle class is pretty broad, too. MDs are middle class, as are contractors and most, if not all, office workers; there's a divide between upper middle class and lower middle class, however. > for those not from the UK we regard "middle class" as describing a much wider social group than say in the USA where it might be based on income. It's basically not working class and not a member of the aristocracy. Could be a QC, a CEO or school teacher. I don't know what a QC is, but a CEO of a non-Fortune 500 company would probably be upper middle class, and a school teacher would be lower middle class unless they're in a very expensive private school. I don't know that it's strictly based on income, necessarily, as much as how much independence the job provides; whether it's a job or a career, in other words.
    - Lio 7y ago
      A QC is Queen’s Council[1] Actually your definition is not that dissimilar to what we’d understand too. I think it’s not too different to white collar vs blue collar. Attitude to education fits in there somewhere too. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Counsel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Counsel
- peteretep 7y ago
  Growing up, "kev" was a synonym for chav, townie, ned. At my waaaaaay-over-privileged rugby-playing school, we called football "kevball".
ohashi 7y ago
As a Kevin, reading the original story that spawned that subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/219w2o/whos_the_dumbest_person_youve_ever_met/cgbhkwp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/219w2o/whos_the_...) is pretty entertaining. I don't know that I've ever felt discriminated based on my name, but I've had people tell me things (namely in Germany/Germans) about the association.
amyjess 7y ago
Y'know, I'm aware that the "Kevin" meme originated with an askreddit story (which someone else linked below), but I'm wondering if the reason it took off the way it did had anything to do with Kevin from the US version of The Office, who fits that stereotype to a T. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Malone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Malone

splitbrain 7y ago

What's missing in this article is the aspect of escapism. The mentioned names Ronny and Mandy were especially popular in East Germany for kids born in the late 70ies, early 80ies. I think many parents picked "exotic" names for their kids in some sense of longing for the places they could never hope to see. Maybe some simple way to be part of a larger world? I could see the same mechanism in socio-economic disadvantaged parents. Their world is limited by money, not borders, but they still want to be part of the larger world.

jchampem 7y ago

It also applies here in France, especially northern/eastern parts close to Germany. Well, not for Chantal, which is not a very exotic name here.

klez 7y ago
Somewhat in Italy as well. There's a scene in an 80s movie where two "coatti" (I can't really find a translation for this word. Let's say "white trash" from Rome) are deciding what name to choose for their hypothetical son. The guy would like to call him Kevin because "it gives a sense of respect". Here's the scene (somewhat NSFW, I guess) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GUyKG96xlsk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GUyKG96xlsk
zuuow 7y ago
Also in Spain. Kevin, Joshua, etc automatically mark you as being a gypsy. No Chantal here though, but names like Jennifer or Yolanda are arguably used to that effect too. Very, very surprised though to see this as an international phenomenon.
- overkalix 7y ago
  I'd argue these names are more representative of cani/quillo culture than gypsies though. The phenomenon is pretty universal, it has to do with the formation of lumpenproletariat.
Freak_NL 7y ago
Same in the Netherlands. There are a lot of names that will instantly identify you as someone born from parents hailing from the lower socio-economic classes. If you meet a boy named Jayden (the present day Dutch Kevin I guess?), you can be pretty sure his parents didn't go to college. This information should be irrelevant, but in reality it is used by whoever they meet, consciously or unconsciously. The problem with these imported and new names is that it places a long lasting, nigh indelible stigma on their bearer. A label that everyone can see — yet you'll never know if it affects someone's opinion of you. All you might know is that the net effect of your name is negative until society changes its perception of it (i.e., gets used to it).

Escapado 7y ago

My name is Kevin. I'm 27 and I'm from (west) germany. Most people I get to know will bring the topic up. I got a master's degree in physics and I have heard people say something like 'your name doesn't fit your profile at all' more times than I can count. I've seen girls in my sphere discard guys on Tinder partly due to being named Kevin. People do joke about the name and that's ok. It's not terrible but it isn't great either.

artfucker1996 7y ago
same. being named kevin is a hard life in germany, but sometimes i can't help but wonder if it actually benefited me in some way. it tought me a great lesson about people being spiteful without realising it, just because it's been established by the social environment that you live in. while some people are just consciously being dickheads, others might have this negative stigma associated with the name Kevin without ever meeting a person named Kevin. to me this is fascinating and in my opionion extends in some ways to people being racist or homophobic without ever meeting people of the "other group".
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  > ... people being racist or homophobic without ever meeting people of the "other group". In my limited experience, this is the norm, not an exception.
  - moomin 7y ago
    What is even more entertaining is that when they do know people from the other group, they have a habit of treating them as shining exceptions to the rule, not questioning whether or not the rule is even valid.
    - foozed 7y ago
      "no, that's different. [name] is my friend!"
    - 7y ago

nailer 7y ago

The article also mentioned Horst as having a particular association - what was the association?

1011_1101 7y ago
Basically the same as the other mentioned: Moron, idiot or dimwit. But the actual names used vary from generations and regions. Also I would say these name insults are mostly used by children and teenagers. As a somewhat effective workaround to avoid getting punished for using the actual swearwords.
brazzy 7y ago
Stupidity or clumsiness. Apparently it can't be tracked to any specific origin, the name just went completely out of fashion and the association seems to have emerged around 2000. Here's a German article about it: https://www.welt.de/kultur/article163980590/Der-Herbst-des-Horst-wie-ein-Name-zum-Witz-wurde.html https://www.welt.de/kultur/article163980590/Der-Herbst-des-H...
Tomte 7y ago
Friends called their unborn "Horst" so that people (including themselves) had a name with which they could to refer to the future child, but at the same time the choice made obvious that it would not be the real name given after birth and that they did not want to disclose it beforehand. I suppose that says something about the name's image.

Tharkun 7y ago

Naming things is hard. Naming people is harder. Many (most?) expecting parents spend hours researching names online or in "1000 baby name ideas"-books. My parents love my name. I hate it. There are too many of us for names to be a unique identifier. First names are too generic to say anything about us, and they're usually assigned at birth, before any of our traits are known. Family names are even worse; here's your father's last name glued on to yours, for no apparent reason. Or maybe your mother's. Or, if you want, in Belgium, a hyphenated version of both parents', but excluding any hyphenated part of theirs. This somehow implies that family is important, but only a small part of your family? I don't get that in a modern context. Iain M Banks had an interesting take on multi-part names in The Culture, with the naming scheme at least featuring a chosen name. But sadly also including things you have no control over, like place of birth and parentage. Letting everyone pick their own name would be nice. That's apparently already possible in some parts of the world, but not everywhere. And often you can only change it if your name is truly ridiculous or if you share a name with a serial killer or some such.

Freak_NL 7y ago
It depends on the jurisdiction. In the Netherlands changing your given name(s) is possible if you can convince a judge of its negative impact on you. Gender transitioning is an obvious rationale, but a well-worded explanation of why your current name doesn't match who you are or damages you (e.g., past traumatic experiences, abuse, but also a name simply not suiting you) tends to suffice. It's not something you can get done at a whim or frequently of course. The judge will weigh the needs of society (i.e., to be able to consistently refer to citizens by a constant name in various types of records) against your personal motivation for changing names.
- ummwhat 7y ago
  The US is much more liberal about this. You have to pay a fee and put in some paperwork and make an announcement in a news paper with a certain amount of readers and a judge will deny requests that violate a very limited set of common sense criteria. Sometimes the judges can get a bit lazy about actually filtering requests. Jesus Christ literally lives in New York.

Nursie 7y ago

From a UK perspective, Kevin is not a very popular name either, and has a bunch of negative associations. "Kev" has been slang for someone from a low socioeconomic background, possibly violent, often paired with "Sharon" or "Tracy" as a female equivalent. So as an aspirational western name I'm not sure it works! At least for the English...

Lio 7y ago
Yep, back in the 1980s and 90s "kev" was indeed used as a somewhat derogatory term in the UK. The stereotypical kev was supposed to be seen wearing white, fluffy socks and black shoes (terrible faux pas that) and driving a Ford Capri (badly). At the time this greatly amused me as a child because my well to do Irish grandfather, uncle and cousin were all called Kevin and nothing at all like the stereotype. Not sure if the term "kev" existed as a mild insult in Ireland but they were all aware of us using it... :D

wdroz 7y ago

In some french-speaking countries, script-kiddies are sometime called Kévin. I'm not sure if is a reference to the famous Kevin Mitnick or to Kevin from the movie Home Alone or some kind of Kevinism. These last years, I also hear people using "Jean-Kévin" instead.

toomanybeersies 7y ago

Sounds a lot like Kyle in English speaking countries.

arethuza 7y ago
Perhaps apart from Scotland where it is a fairly common part of place names (e.g. Kyle of Lochalsh) - having said that, I don't think it's a very common first name here, perhaps because of that?
- Sean1708 7y ago
  I'm English and I've also never heard of the name Kyle having any kind of prejudice, might just be an American thing?
  - snth 7y ago
    I've never heard of a negative stereotype about Kyle in America either.
    - thrownblown 7y ago
      Apparently you have yet to fall into the area 51 memehole. The Kyle's are on the vanguard with their +10 Monster Energy buff
  - glhaynes 7y ago
    American, never heard anything bad about the name Kyle.
    - thrownblown 7y ago
      How about Karen? I need to talk to your manager.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    According to https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kyle https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/kyle "Kyle is an online caricature [...] "Kyle" is generally presented as rage-filled and aggressive, and he is a fan of Monster Energy Drinks and Axe body spray" It also says, tautologically, that "Kyle jokes parody of a certain kind of person with a set of characteristics one associates with the name"

barking 7y ago

You're better off sticking with the long established names of your culture. My parents picked really boring names (as I thought) for our family. We were named after our grandparents. We used to regularly chastise them for this when we were young. Now I'm glad of it. I could have been called Calvyn.

gpjanik 7y ago

I can confirm that it applies to other countries of the region. I think it's a result of this wild fascination with America that came after the fall of Soviet Union. People westernised quickly and without much reflection upon the process and are giving idiotic names to their kids. "Brajan" (phonetic for Brian) and "Dżesika" (Jessica) are already memes in Poland.

colourgarden 7y ago

"Kevin is not a name but a diagnosis" is a well known saying amongst school teachers here in Germany.

Freak_NL 7y ago
»Kevin ist kein Name, sondern eine Diagnose!« Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour?

cluoma 7y ago

Interesting. I moved to Germany several years ago and just assumed that the Kevins were because of an interest in Anglo names. I didn't know they had a stigma attached to them. I'm trying to think of something equivalent from Canada, when I was younger, but nothing is really springing to mind.

snarfy 7y ago

I wonder how memes relate to this, like 'scumbag steve' and the various 'karen' jokes.

schnevets 7y ago
Yeah, the Karen/Chad/Becky phenomenon really makes me cringe. You'd think with recent culture shifts towards "wholesomeness" and "acceptance", turning someone's name into an insult wouldn't have caught on.

Tomte 7y ago

Another strange difference between countries' perceptions is the Swedish princess Estelle's name. I was on vacation in Sweden shortly thereafter, and while just about every German thought the name atrocious, befitting a prostitute, all the Swedes found it charming.

cryptos 7y ago

There was a funny story going on in 2005: Ferrero changed the face on the packaging of the popular "Kinderschokolade" and many buyers didn't like the new face and were hence calling the boy "Kevin". There was even a campaign "weg mit Kevin" with 20.000 supporters, which handed over a petition to Ferrero. https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/kinderschokolade-wuetender-protest-gegen-das-neue-gesicht-a-389061.html https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/kinderschokolade-wuetender... Translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fkinderschokolade-wuetender-protest-gegen-das-neue-gesicht-a-389061.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

dejawu 7y ago

Fellow Kevin here. While I was doing a fellowship [0] at the US Census Bureau last summer, I noticed a peculiar abundance of other Kevins working there. As a joke, I created this presentation [1] about this phenomenon, which I ended up accidentally showing the chief marketing officer. He loved it. [0] https://www.codingitforward.com/fellowship https://www.codingitforward.com/fellowship [1] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/117Q3zuyWulkDGcGXp4BdJP36Tx72Wk9CQEv8-Sen64Y/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/117Q3zuyWulkDGcGXp4Bd...

nyolfen 7y ago
you guys should unionize
- iKevinShah 7y ago
  where do I sign up?

KatarinaGrumy 7y ago

Oh, it refers not only to German people( Ukrainian people tend to give their children exotic names too.

jkmcf 7y ago

I found this on my desk one day in the 90s... https://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/16/opinion/observer-the-kevin-excess.html https://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/16/opinion/observer-the-kevi...

bonoboTP 7y ago

In Hungary the equivalent would be Roma families naming their children after foreign soap opera characters (e.g. Bobby [Ewing] in the 90s), footballers and other famous people, especially Latin American ones. By law names have to conform to Hungarian orthography (except if the parents have immigrant background) Examples: Rikárdó, Armandó, Rodrigó, Dzsenifer (Jennifer), Dzsesszika (Jessica), Brájen (Brian), Dzsásztin (Justin), Brendon, Szamanta, Eszmeralda Seems to be a universal thing across many countries that people in low socio-economic classes (black people in the US or Roma in Eastern Europe) give more, let's say, "unusual" names to their kids.

chaoticmass 7y ago

The article mentions a Uncyclopedia satire article helped kick off media coverage of this phenomenon. Here is the article: https://de.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Kevinismus https://de.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Kevinismus

kschiffer 7y ago

Fellow (German) Kevin here. I like how this topic is frequently being brought up again in loose intervals as if it is important to remind everyone every once in a while. I can confirm that there is indeed a stigma associated with the name. As a white young male though, being grumpy about such thing would be quite disproportionate. In that sense, it sort of makes me get an idea of what it could be like to be ridiculed for something one has no control or responsibility about.