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Is there such a thing as moral bankruptcy? Should we strive to curb the worst impulses of people or is everything a 'value judgement'? We treat things like murd

Is there such a thing as moral bankruptcy? Should we strive to curb the worst impulses of people or is everything a 'value judgement'? We treat things like murder as a binary proposition (barring self defense), even if the person being murdered represents a drain on society's resources. Do you personally believe that humans are the ultimate arbiters of the universe?

cgriswald 7y ago
Go ahead and call those who disagree with you 'criminals', but don't expect the issue to then not be politicized; and don't be surprised if they're not willing to listen to your ideas. You've already decided that whatever they are doing is wrong and shown them you're not willing to work with them to achieve any acceptable compromise. You've also alienated potential allies who are probably looking at you wondering if they are next. And you've given your opponents plausible deniability while possibly damaging your own credibility. > We treat things like murder as a binary proposition (barring self defense), even if the person being murdered represents a drain on society's resources. Since when? Historically it was A-OK to kill people under all kinds of circumstances that today we would consider murder. Some societies had ritualized sacrifice. Plenty of people now (myself included) think the death penalty is not okay. Even today, murder is often used as a tool of statecraft for every government on Earth. It's tolerated in many, many instances; sometimes even praised. Murder itself, in the US, is treated differently depending on intent. And murder is just a subset of killings, which include killing on the battlefield, manslaughter, self defense, accident, etc. There's nothing binary here. > Do you personally believe that humans are the ultimate arbiters of the universe? Does it matter what I personally believe to a person that wants to cut down a forest for profit? Does my belief somehow help achieve my goal? Does my belief do anything to convince anyone else?
- defterGoose 7y ago
  Wow, that's a lot of mischaracterizations in one post. First of all, I didn't call anyone a criminal per se. And you're taking my definition of murder far out of context. We're not talking about war here, or some ancient animistic civilization. I think thats pretty disingenuous to present such a straw man. We're talking about the norms of modern society. I was only pointing out that there are certain behaviors that have widespread acceptance as being "not ok in civilized society". The legal definition of murder is murder. I didn't say manslaughter, war, accident, etc. I said murder. Now, we can go on making moral equivalencies all day, but if you do that, all you have at the end of the day is a bunch of philosophical masturbations that don't help anyone who seeks a greater good for humanity. Believing in something may just be a precursor to an actionable life, but not believing anything is a precursor to nothing.

cgriswald 7y ago

Go ahead and call those who disagree with you 'criminals', but don't expect the issue to then not be politicized; and don't be surprised if they're not willing to listen to your ideas. You've already decided that whatever they are doing is wrong and shown them you're not willing to work with them to achieve any acceptable compromise. You've also alienated potential allies who are probably looking at you wondering if they are next. And you've given your opponents plausible deniability while possibly damaging your own credibility. > We treat things like murder as a binary proposition (barring self defense), even if the person being murdered represents a drain on society's resources. Since when? Historically it was A-OK to kill people under all kinds of circumstances that today we would consider murder. Some societies had ritualized sacrifice. Plenty of people now (myself included) think the death penalty is not okay. Even today, murder is often used as a tool of statecraft for every government on Earth. It's tolerated in many, many instances; sometimes even praised. Murder itself, in the US, is treated differently depending on intent. And murder is just a subset of killings, which include killing on the battlefield, manslaughter, self defense, accident, etc. There's nothing binary here. > Do you personally believe that humans are the ultimate arbiters of the universe? Does it matter what I personally believe to a person that wants to cut down a forest for profit? Does my belief somehow help achieve my goal? Does my belief do anything to convince anyone else?

defterGoose 7y ago
Wow, that's a lot of mischaracterizations in one post. First of all, I didn't call anyone a criminal per se. And you're taking my definition of murder far out of context. We're not talking about war here, or some ancient animistic civilization. I think thats pretty disingenuous to present such a straw man. We're talking about the norms of modern society. I was only pointing out that there are certain behaviors that have widespread acceptance as being "not ok in civilized society". The legal definition of murder is murder. I didn't say manslaughter, war, accident, etc. I said murder. Now, we can go on making moral equivalencies all day, but if you do that, all you have at the end of the day is a bunch of philosophical masturbations that don't help anyone who seeks a greater good for humanity. Believing in something may just be a precursor to an actionable life, but not believing anything is a precursor to nothing.