4 ms·

How Hard Could it Be?: Adventures in Office Space

21 points by terpua 18y ago

ambition 18y ago
Rent was 15% of revenue, now it's 2%. Conclusion: Fog creek revenues have increased around 7.5x since they moved into their current space. Impressive.
- spolsky 18y ago
  rents go up from year to year. And we expanded in the existing space. Revenues increased about 17x in five years.
terpua 18y ago
http://www.dornbracht.com/en/ http://www.dornbracht.com/en/ Never heard of them until now...it's art you actually use!
josefresco 18y ago
Kind of sad that you have to attract programmers with glass walls, marble floors and shiny objects. Give me a connection to the 'net, nothing else, and I'm there.
- lpgauth 18y ago
  I personally don't agree, I think my working environment is directly related to productivity. Maybe you do only need a internet connection, but for me having whiteboards/glass, natural light and music is important. Also, sharing office space with bright people is always a plus as you can bounce ideas and you don't need to answer too many dump questions.
- bouncingsoul 18y ago
  No one disputes that humans can live and work in slummy conditions, but that doesn't mean we should. We could also raise families in one-room homes with seven ft. ceilings. That would suck though. A desire to shape our environment to be aesthetically pleasing is not a human defect that needs to be transcended: it's a natural desire that fulfilled improves our lives. (Example: it's been shown that higher ceilings increase creative problem solving: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/519146 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/519146) You speak as if you've taken the better side in the case of form vs. function. But just like we're wary of people obsessed with form over function I think we should be wary of praising function and degrading the importance form.
steveplace 18y ago
And remember... spolsky's earned it. Fog Creek has been around for a while, so they can afford the amenmnities. Fiscal conservatism should be all the rage if you ever startup something. So you can grow, and then get the 150 gal saltwater aquarium.
redorb 18y ago
Anyone else get pissed off at the aarp ad covering the 1st letter of every sentence, and not being able to be closed or moved? - or am I the last to not use ADblocker (using FF )
- allenbrunson 18y ago
  yeah, that bugged me too. (i'm a safari user)
ajross 18y ago
It's my experience that there's a hugely bimodal distribution in people's feelings on this issue. Some folks like Spolsky just eat it up. Thinking about office space and design turns them on, and it feeds back into being happier with everything (or conversely, working in a gray-carpetted drywall office drives them nuts). That's fine. To each his own. But for a lot of the rest of us, it's just not a big deal. The mechanics of the work environment (good location, quiet, offices with doors, etc...) certainly matter. But the look? Meh. To us, no matter what the physical space is, it's the coworkers who really define the work environment. Just bear that in mind before you decide that you have to write that huge check to the interior designer. At best, pretty space is going to help retain people on the margin: maybe it's a tiebreaker between you and google, etc... But it's never much more than a tiebreaker.
staunch 18y ago
I have a lot of respect and admiration for people willing to do big things and take flak for intangible benefits. Probably my favorite character trait in other people. I'd want to work there merely because he's inclined to do things like this, even if I didn't care about the office.
dcurtis 18y ago
I don't get it. Why does Joel Spolsky spend so much time on the look and beauty of his office, but allow his websites and products to be so horribly ugly? It appears he treats his programmers like royalty, but where are the UI designers? This is painfully evident in the look of FogBugz and other software from Fog Creek.
- iamelgringo 18y ago
  He's making a killing with his "ugly" products and had 17x revenue growth in 5 years. I'm sure if he could charge an extra $100 per license, he'd make the software prettier. As it is, he primarily sells bug tracking software to Windows programmers. It's not exactly a sexy, design driven business.
  - dcurtis 18y ago
    It doesn't matter that the target audience works on Windows. That's no excuse to make hideous looking software. The argument he uses for creating a great environment for his programmers works the same way regarding his software-- creating a really nice place for his customers to work will hopefully make them happier.

21 points by terpua 18y ago

Rent was 15% of revenue, now it's 2%. Conclusion: Fog creek revenues have increased around 7.5x since they moved into their current space. Impressive.

spolsky 18y ago
rents go up from year to year. And we expanded in the existing space. Revenues increased about 17x in five years.

terpua 18y ago

http://www.dornbracht.com/en/ http://www.dornbracht.com/en/ Never heard of them until now...it's art you actually use!

josefresco 18y ago

Kind of sad that you have to attract programmers with glass walls, marble floors and shiny objects. Give me a connection to the 'net, nothing else, and I'm there.

lpgauth 18y ago
I personally don't agree, I think my working environment is directly related to productivity. Maybe you do only need a internet connection, but for me having whiteboards/glass, natural light and music is important. Also, sharing office space with bright people is always a plus as you can bounce ideas and you don't need to answer too many dump questions.
bouncingsoul 18y ago
No one disputes that humans can live and work in slummy conditions, but that doesn't mean we should. We could also raise families in one-room homes with seven ft. ceilings. That would suck though. A desire to shape our environment to be aesthetically pleasing is not a human defect that needs to be transcended: it's a natural desire that fulfilled improves our lives. (Example: it's been shown that higher ceilings increase creative problem solving: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/519146 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/519146) You speak as if you've taken the better side in the case of form vs. function. But just like we're wary of people obsessed with form over function I think we should be wary of praising function and degrading the importance form.

steveplace 18y ago

And remember... spolsky's earned it. Fog Creek has been around for a while, so they can afford the amenmnities. Fiscal conservatism should be all the rage if you ever startup something. So you can grow, and then get the 150 gal saltwater aquarium.

redorb 18y ago

Anyone else get pissed off at the aarp ad covering the 1st letter of every sentence, and not being able to be closed or moved? - or am I the last to not use ADblocker (using FF )

allenbrunson 18y ago
yeah, that bugged me too. (i'm a safari user)

ajross 18y ago

It's my experience that there's a hugely bimodal distribution in people's feelings on this issue. Some folks like Spolsky just eat it up. Thinking about office space and design turns them on, and it feeds back into being happier with everything (or conversely, working in a gray-carpetted drywall office drives them nuts). That's fine. To each his own. But for a lot of the rest of us, it's just not a big deal. The mechanics of the work environment (good location, quiet, offices with doors, etc...) certainly matter. But the look? Meh. To us, no matter what the physical space is, it's the coworkers who really define the work environment. Just bear that in mind before you decide that you have to write that huge check to the interior designer. At best, pretty space is going to help retain people on the margin: maybe it's a tiebreaker between you and google, etc... But it's never much more than a tiebreaker.

staunch 18y ago

I have a lot of respect and admiration for people willing to do big things and take flak for intangible benefits. Probably my favorite character trait in other people. I'd want to work there merely because he's inclined to do things like this, even if I didn't care about the office.

dcurtis 18y ago

I don't get it. Why does Joel Spolsky spend so much time on the look and beauty of his office, but allow his websites and products to be so horribly ugly? It appears he treats his programmers like royalty, but where are the UI designers? This is painfully evident in the look of FogBugz and other software from Fog Creek.

iamelgringo 18y ago
He's making a killing with his "ugly" products and had 17x revenue growth in 5 years. I'm sure if he could charge an extra $100 per license, he'd make the software prettier. As it is, he primarily sells bug tracking software to Windows programmers. It's not exactly a sexy, design driven business.
- dcurtis 18y ago
  It doesn't matter that the target audience works on Windows. That's no excuse to make hideous looking software. The argument he uses for creating a great environment for his programmers works the same way regarding his software-- creating a really nice place for his customers to work will hopefully make them happier.