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Meanwhile in the U.S., the GOP is banning the banning of plastic bags (hopefully soon to be undone by the new Democratic majority in Michigan). https://www.was

Meanwhile in the U.S., the GOP is banning the banning of plastic bags (hopefully soon to be undone by the new Democratic majority in Michigan). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/30/yes-this-is-real-michigan-just-banned-banning-plastic-bags/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20...

zuuow 7y ago
It's called freedom.
rsj_hn 7y ago
Banning plastic bags is bad policy that promotes resource waste and food contamination.It's a rolling back of the gains from sanitation that we've made, for no purpose other than muddle-headed virtue signaling by people who can't be bothered to learn the facts before passing their intrusive bans. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/726035361/why-banning-plastic-grocery-bags-could-be-a-bad-move https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/726035361/why-banning-plastic... https://fee.org/articles/banning-plastic-bags-isnt-just-bad-economics-its-bad-for-the-environment/ https://fee.org/articles/banning-plastic-bags-isnt-just-bad-...
- psychometry 7y ago
  Give me a break. I'm sure it was difficult to find reputable sources refuting the obvious benefits of banning plastic bags, but when the best you can do is propaganda from a right-wing think tank, that should be a sign that you might want to reconsider your position.
- reneherse 7y ago
  Neither of the articles you cited mention anything backing your claims on food contamination or sanitation.
- mundu_wa_hinya 7y ago
  As a policy in action in Kenya, I'd say that it is working. (We have a ban that has been in place for more than a year). practically everyone at the supermarket uses reusable bags compared to pre-ban mentality of 'oh I'll get yet another bag at the till'.
  - drak0n1c 7y ago
    Kenya has relatively lacking landfill and garbage collection infrastructure - such a policy makes great sense given those conditions. Bag bans have less utility in developed countries where more than 99% of trash is safely sequestered into landfill.
  - umvi 7y ago
    And don't said reusable bags cost thousands of times the carbon emissions of single use plastic bags? So unless you use your reusable bags for years and years, you won't break even.
    - phil248 7y ago
      "So unless you use your reusable bags for years and years..." That is literally the exact point of reusable bags. The hint is in the name.
      - rsj_hn 7y ago
        The issue is how do you sterilize the bags between re-use to achieve the same level of hygiene as disposable bags? Doing that is very energy intensive and you are in a situation in which the energy cost of washing a bigger reusable bag is comparable to the cost of making a brand new plastic one. That is why I was emphasizing sanitation. We don't use disposable needles, containers for meat and produce, dairy, because they are cheaper per se, we use them because we are concerned with hygiene. And of course the larger issue is the totalitarian nature of this. Who needs two cups of coffee? Ban the second cup! This idea that we should start using the government's monopoly on violence to ban what are symbolic and irrelevant things -- even without thinking through the repercussions for sanitation and energy -- is a very dangerous one.
        jabits 7y ago
        No one will look out for the environment we live in, especially business. Try living with re-use bags for a month and find out just how inconvenienced you are...we as citizens are making these laws to live in a clean sanitary world, not Some unnamed totalitarian regime.
- jabits 7y ago
  Nonsense! We have this law here on Maui and it has only helped lower plastics pollution and loose trash. People have all adapted to carrying re-use sacks and I hear very few complaints. It is so nice not to see shredded plastic blowing in the the trees and brush all over the place.
- mc32 7y ago
  Multi-use plastic bags and single-use plastic bags, in actual lifetime probably are close to equal in terms of energy use, carbon and pollution. Where multi-use wins is in aesthetics. You don’t get as many bags blowing and landing on the streets and roadways or finding themselves in waterways and estuaries. So I see that as a positive. Straws now, I don’t see the logic in it beside trying to condition people into “plastic = bad”. It’s the the “broken windows theory” applied to (anti-) plastics environmentalism.
  - reneherse 7y ago
    Don't forget the damage plastics do to marine life. For almost any shape, type, and size of plastic, there is an animal in the ocean that will mistake it for food. In the case of plastic bags, they seem to be commonly mistaken for squid and jellyfish, eaten by the albatross and sea turtles, to name just two species. So while the bag-free aesthetic on land is an improvement, the potential for downstream benefits is even greater.
    - rsj_hn 7y ago
      The pollution of plastic in the ocean is a breakdown of sanitation and is primarily the result of 5 asian nations that have poor sanitation systems. You fix that by improving the sanitation system so that garbage is not dumped into the ocean, not by trying to stop the creation of garbage going into the system. 350 million metric tons of plastic are produced each year and that number is growing by 4% per annum. Plastic bags are not going to change that, and plastic is only one type of long lived material in our garbage. The solution is to not dump garbage into rivers and oceans and to create effective sanitation systems in developing countries. But people in Germany forgoing the use of plastic bags, thinking that they are saving a seal or something are just misguided. Germany has an effective sanitation system -- India, Thailand, China, Myanmar do not. Nothing you throw away in Germany is going to end up in the ocean.

zuuow 7y ago

It's called freedom.

rsj_hn 7y ago

Banning plastic bags is bad policy that promotes resource waste and food contamination.It's a rolling back of the gains from sanitation that we've made, for no purpose other than muddle-headed virtue signaling by people who can't be bothered to learn the facts before passing their intrusive bans. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/726035361/why-banning-plastic-grocery-bags-could-be-a-bad-move https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/726035361/why-banning-plastic... https://fee.org/articles/banning-plastic-bags-isnt-just-bad-economics-its-bad-for-the-environment/ https://fee.org/articles/banning-plastic-bags-isnt-just-bad-...

psychometry 7y ago
Give me a break. I'm sure it was difficult to find reputable sources refuting the obvious benefits of banning plastic bags, but when the best you can do is propaganda from a right-wing think tank, that should be a sign that you might want to reconsider your position.
reneherse 7y ago
Neither of the articles you cited mention anything backing your claims on food contamination or sanitation.
mundu_wa_hinya 7y ago
As a policy in action in Kenya, I'd say that it is working. (We have a ban that has been in place for more than a year). practically everyone at the supermarket uses reusable bags compared to pre-ban mentality of 'oh I'll get yet another bag at the till'.
- drak0n1c 7y ago
  Kenya has relatively lacking landfill and garbage collection infrastructure - such a policy makes great sense given those conditions. Bag bans have less utility in developed countries where more than 99% of trash is safely sequestered into landfill.
- umvi 7y ago
  And don't said reusable bags cost thousands of times the carbon emissions of single use plastic bags? So unless you use your reusable bags for years and years, you won't break even.
  - phil248 7y ago
    "So unless you use your reusable bags for years and years..." That is literally the exact point of reusable bags. The hint is in the name.
    - rsj_hn 7y ago
      The issue is how do you sterilize the bags between re-use to achieve the same level of hygiene as disposable bags? Doing that is very energy intensive and you are in a situation in which the energy cost of washing a bigger reusable bag is comparable to the cost of making a brand new plastic one. That is why I was emphasizing sanitation. We don't use disposable needles, containers for meat and produce, dairy, because they are cheaper per se, we use them because we are concerned with hygiene. And of course the larger issue is the totalitarian nature of this. Who needs two cups of coffee? Ban the second cup! This idea that we should start using the government's monopoly on violence to ban what are symbolic and irrelevant things -- even without thinking through the repercussions for sanitation and energy -- is a very dangerous one.
      - jabits 7y ago
        No one will look out for the environment we live in, especially business. Try living with re-use bags for a month and find out just how inconvenienced you are...we as citizens are making these laws to live in a clean sanitary world, not Some unnamed totalitarian regime.
jabits 7y ago
Nonsense! We have this law here on Maui and it has only helped lower plastics pollution and loose trash. People have all adapted to carrying re-use sacks and I hear very few complaints. It is so nice not to see shredded plastic blowing in the the trees and brush all over the place.
mc32 7y ago
Multi-use plastic bags and single-use plastic bags, in actual lifetime probably are close to equal in terms of energy use, carbon and pollution. Where multi-use wins is in aesthetics. You don’t get as many bags blowing and landing on the streets and roadways or finding themselves in waterways and estuaries. So I see that as a positive. Straws now, I don’t see the logic in it beside trying to condition people into “plastic = bad”. It’s the the “broken windows theory” applied to (anti-) plastics environmentalism.
- reneherse 7y ago
  Don't forget the damage plastics do to marine life. For almost any shape, type, and size of plastic, there is an animal in the ocean that will mistake it for food. In the case of plastic bags, they seem to be commonly mistaken for squid and jellyfish, eaten by the albatross and sea turtles, to name just two species. So while the bag-free aesthetic on land is an improvement, the potential for downstream benefits is even greater.
  - rsj_hn 7y ago
    The pollution of plastic in the ocean is a breakdown of sanitation and is primarily the result of 5 asian nations that have poor sanitation systems. You fix that by improving the sanitation system so that garbage is not dumped into the ocean, not by trying to stop the creation of garbage going into the system. 350 million metric tons of plastic are produced each year and that number is growing by 4% per annum. Plastic bags are not going to change that, and plastic is only one type of long lived material in our garbage. The solution is to not dump garbage into rivers and oceans and to create effective sanitation systems in developing countries. But people in Germany forgoing the use of plastic bags, thinking that they are saving a seal or something are just misguided. Germany has an effective sanitation system -- India, Thailand, China, Myanmar do not. Nothing you throw away in Germany is going to end up in the ocean.