3 ms·

Suffering is always relative and it's a slippery slope to dismiss as whining. By this logic, 99% of issues in the US are "whining" because other countries have

Suffering is always relative and it's a slippery slope to dismiss as whining. By this logic, 99% of issues in the US are "whining" because other countries have it much worse. Anyone in Sierra Leone could claim to a US citizen: "Sugar lobbies are meddling with public school meals and making children diabetic? Lucky you, my country doesn't have public schools and children are starving". This of course doesn't invalidate the issue. Having lived in a third world country it would be very easy for me to dismiss "they refuse to call me by my preferred pronoun" as whining. After immigrating into the first world, it's a clear realization to me that suffering is relative and that's necessary for civilization to continue progressing through time.

9q9 7y ago
Talmudic question: what's the average fertility rate of the clientele worrying about misgendering, and how does that average relate to civilization progressing through time?
- rmellow 7y ago
  (please google Talmudic questions before downvoting parent - they're asking for consistency in my example and that's fair) The utility of the example I gave depends on your moral values [1], which admittedly was crafted for the perceived majority of the HN crowd. The example for me is a sign of respect for the freedom to be who you want to be, in contrast of imposing your morals on others. It's a sign of advancement to me that individuals feel comfortable with themselves, instead of wasting energy hiding trying to conform to an arbitrary standard. I spend less energy calling people how they like to be called than they would spend by being uncomfortable with themselves their whole lives. I won't get into the accounting of energy wasted, take my argument or leave it. I'm sorry you're being downvoted without explanation - cold shoulders divide people even further. [1] Moral values change according to time and place: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores
  - 9q9 7y ago
    The M/F/Congenitally-Infertile distinction is not an "arbitrary standard", but rather a natural kind, and the essence of reproduction of the species. Morality is something we impose upon ourselves and others precisely to coordinate the polity, in order avoid or manage conflicts (e.g. driving on the left vs driving on the right).
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    The issue I see with giving in to people who want to be called a preferred pronoun is the reason they want it. They want to be called a certain pronoun because they want to be thought of as their preferred gender. They don't really care about the pronoun. They care about the opinion it signals. An opinion they don't want people to be allowed to have. In order words, they want to change language in order to change people's thought patterns and mental models. If people were allowed to speak however they want it would break the spell. It would break the suspension of disbelief. Having your thoughts decided for you is exertion of power and dominance that makes me deeply uncomfortable. It is no small thing to give up.
weberc2 7y ago
I think critics of preferred pronouns would argue that there are virtually no Americans who have problems as trivial as the pronoun issue; that it’s a contrived problem. In other words, it’s not that suffering is relative—everyone agrees on that—the disagreement is about the ordering.

9q9 7y ago

Talmudic question: what's the average fertility rate of the clientele worrying about misgendering, and how does that average relate to civilization progressing through time?

rmellow 7y ago
(please google Talmudic questions before downvoting parent - they're asking for consistency in my example and that's fair) The utility of the example I gave depends on your moral values [1], which admittedly was crafted for the perceived majority of the HN crowd. The example for me is a sign of respect for the freedom to be who you want to be, in contrast of imposing your morals on others. It's a sign of advancement to me that individuals feel comfortable with themselves, instead of wasting energy hiding trying to conform to an arbitrary standard. I spend less energy calling people how they like to be called than they would spend by being uncomfortable with themselves their whole lives. I won't get into the accounting of energy wasted, take my argument or leave it. I'm sorry you're being downvoted without explanation - cold shoulders divide people even further. [1] Moral values change according to time and place: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores
- 9q9 7y ago
  The M/F/Congenitally-Infertile distinction is not an "arbitrary standard", but rather a natural kind, and the essence of reproduction of the species. Morality is something we impose upon ourselves and others precisely to coordinate the polity, in order avoid or manage conflicts (e.g. driving on the left vs driving on the right).
- im3w1l 7y ago
  The issue I see with giving in to people who want to be called a preferred pronoun is the reason they want it. They want to be called a certain pronoun because they want to be thought of as their preferred gender. They don't really care about the pronoun. They care about the opinion it signals. An opinion they don't want people to be allowed to have. In order words, they want to change language in order to change people's thought patterns and mental models. If people were allowed to speak however they want it would break the spell. It would break the suspension of disbelief. Having your thoughts decided for you is exertion of power and dominance that makes me deeply uncomfortable. It is no small thing to give up.

weberc2 7y ago

I think critics of preferred pronouns would argue that there are virtually no Americans who have problems as trivial as the pronoun issue; that it’s a contrived problem. In other words, it’s not that suffering is relative—everyone agrees on that—the disagreement is about the ordering.