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There should be more countries who are also taking these steps in order to help reduce waste and help the environment. We are fully aware of the harm plastic ba

There should be more countries who are also taking these steps in order to help reduce waste and help the environment. We are fully aware of the harm plastic bags cause and there are many other alternative including paper or reusable bags.

beatgammit 7y ago
I thought paper was just as bad, if not worse, because it takes more energy to produce. [Here's a random site about it[1], though please note that I've done pretty much nothing to vet the information. I reuse plastic bags (garbage, traveling w/ liquids, picnics), and if I have a bunch of extras, I take them to the grocery store, where they have a recycling bin for them. I don't know if they actually get recycled (I read that they often end up in the landfill regardless), but there's a chance. I rarely get too many though because most of my shopping is at Costco, which doesn't provide them. I disagree that a ban here is necessary or useful. I use them quite a bit, so at least for me, I'll be producing "more" waste because I'll need to buy new bags instead. Paper bags aren't as useful (can't hold liquids, are more rigid, break easily), and I always seem to forget my reusable bags. I wish more stores would follow Costco's lead and reuse those cardboard trays, which are just as useful for carrying groceries to/from the car and are obviously recyclable and biodegradable. Honestly, I prefer them most of the time because they keep things from rolling around, I can carry more in one trip to the house, and it's easier to see where certain things are for organizing later. What we need isn't a plastic bag ban, but maybe a tax on them based on the cost of cleaning up discarded plastic bags. It costs $0.05-0.15/bag to buy small garbage bags (bathrooms, office, etc), so the tax shouldn't be more than that. Charging for plastic bags seems to work[2], so why not just do that instead of a ban? Those of us who find value in these bags can continue to use them (I love them for dirty diapers, rotten food, and other stuff that shouldn't hang around the house for days), while those who don't can use other bags. [1] http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html [2] https://neweconomics.org/2016/09/why-the-plastic-bag-charge-is-working/ https://neweconomics.org/2016/09/why-the-plastic-bag-charge-...
- sitharus 7y ago
  Plastic bags are _short term_ less costly to produce, but unlike paper they do not readily degrade in the environment and produce long term environmental damage. They're not the only or largest proportion of plastic pollution, but you move a mountain one stone at a time. Reusable bags are a habit thing. Once you're in the habit of taking bags with you it's much easier, but is a right pain until then. I do agree a minimum price might be better, at least that would make medium-term degradable bags (corn starch etc) more readily used as they're currently out priced by non-degradable plastics. However sometimes the outright ban gets things moving faster. For reference plastic bags have been banned where I live for two months now. I don't miss them.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    Environmental damage depends on them getting into the environment. If they're properly disposed I don't see the harm?
    - standardUser 7y ago
      The problem is that there is no "proper" way to dispose of plastics. That's why plastics have become such a problem. They simply accumulate in the environment.
      - magduf 7y ago
        You can say that about anything. If things are "properly" disposed of, they go in the landfill. Decomposition isn't an issue, because stuff doesn't really decompose that much in landfills: they've dug up old landfills and found newspapers perfectly intact from the early 20th century. The main problem with plastic bags is what happens when they aren't disposed of properly. Paper bag litter will decompose fairly quickly, but plastic bags don't. The corn starch ones are a lot better, and have been around for decades now, so I'm not sure why those aren't required everywhere that still uses plastic bags, because they would ameliorate the problem significantly.
      - skybrian 7y ago
SamReidHughes 7y ago
The problem isn't waste -- plastic bags are really cheap. The only problem is pollution.

beatgammit 7y ago

I thought paper was just as bad, if not worse, because it takes more energy to produce. [Here's a random site about it[1], though please note that I've done pretty much nothing to vet the information. I reuse plastic bags (garbage, traveling w/ liquids, picnics), and if I have a bunch of extras, I take them to the grocery store, where they have a recycling bin for them. I don't know if they actually get recycled (I read that they often end up in the landfill regardless), but there's a chance. I rarely get too many though because most of my shopping is at Costco, which doesn't provide them. I disagree that a ban here is necessary or useful. I use them quite a bit, so at least for me, I'll be producing "more" waste because I'll need to buy new bags instead. Paper bags aren't as useful (can't hold liquids, are more rigid, break easily), and I always seem to forget my reusable bags. I wish more stores would follow Costco's lead and reuse those cardboard trays, which are just as useful for carrying groceries to/from the car and are obviously recyclable and biodegradable. Honestly, I prefer them most of the time because they keep things from rolling around, I can carry more in one trip to the house, and it's easier to see where certain things are for organizing later. What we need isn't a plastic bag ban, but maybe a tax on them based on the cost of cleaning up discarded plastic bags. It costs $0.05-0.15/bag to buy small garbage bags (bathrooms, office, etc), so the tax shouldn't be more than that. Charging for plastic bags seems to work[2], so why not just do that instead of a ban? Those of us who find value in these bags can continue to use them (I love them for dirty diapers, rotten food, and other stuff that shouldn't hang around the house for days), while those who don't can use other bags. [1] http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html [2] https://neweconomics.org/2016/09/why-the-plastic-bag-charge-is-working/ https://neweconomics.org/2016/09/why-the-plastic-bag-charge-...

sitharus 7y ago
Plastic bags are _short term_ less costly to produce, but unlike paper they do not readily degrade in the environment and produce long term environmental damage. They're not the only or largest proportion of plastic pollution, but you move a mountain one stone at a time. Reusable bags are a habit thing. Once you're in the habit of taking bags with you it's much easier, but is a right pain until then. I do agree a minimum price might be better, at least that would make medium-term degradable bags (corn starch etc) more readily used as they're currently out priced by non-degradable plastics. However sometimes the outright ban gets things moving faster. For reference plastic bags have been banned where I live for two months now. I don't miss them.
- skybrian 7y ago
  Environmental damage depends on them getting into the environment. If they're properly disposed I don't see the harm?
  - standardUser 7y ago
    The problem is that there is no "proper" way to dispose of plastics. That's why plastics have become such a problem. They simply accumulate in the environment.
    - magduf 7y ago
      You can say that about anything. If things are "properly" disposed of, they go in the landfill. Decomposition isn't an issue, because stuff doesn't really decompose that much in landfills: they've dug up old landfills and found newspapers perfectly intact from the early 20th century. The main problem with plastic bags is what happens when they aren't disposed of properly. Paper bag litter will decompose fairly quickly, but plastic bags don't. The corn starch ones are a lot better, and have been around for decades now, so I'm not sure why those aren't required everywhere that still uses plastic bags, because they would ameliorate the problem significantly.
    - skybrian 7y ago

SamReidHughes 7y ago

The problem isn't waste -- plastic bags are really cheap. The only problem is pollution.