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Just a side note: 1. Hong Kong, at least on paper, is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people. Mainland party hasn’t acted yet because, again,

Just a side note: 1. Hong Kong, at least on paper, is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people. Mainland party hasn’t acted yet because, again, on paper, this is a Hong Kong issue. But things could get messy when Hong Kong government cries for help 2. The protest started when a bill that many feared could be used to target and deport anti-China citizens. Hong Kong government was quick to withdrawn and eventually kill that bill but the protest got bigger regardless as they see the government is too pro-China 3. Many protesters are now actively attacking police force even if unprovoked. Some even send threats to police officer’s families whilst some caught getting cash handed to them for taking part in protests by foreigners 4. Sentiment in mainland China is mostly against these protests as they see Hong Kong benefits financially a lot from China since its return, and Hong Kong’s real issue is its ever increasing wealth gap Getting back to the news itself, this is indeed very alarming.

thenaturalist 7y ago
What's your source for claims 3 & 4?
- darkhorn 7y ago
  You can see their propaganda here https://reddit.com/r/sino https://reddit.com/r/sino This is pro-China propaganda sub-reddit. For example if you write something that they don't like then they are going to ban you for life. Very interesting, it is like from Soviet Union or North Korea.
JulianMorrison 7y ago
The pictures we're seeing is of cops beating, rubber-shooting and tear-gassing protesters in tight spaces without obvious provocation.
- Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
  Every story has two sides and things on the other side - police officers bitten to bleed or eyes flashed by high power laser pointers. The sad thing is, we gotta take whatever the media feeds us:)
  - tgragnato 7y ago
    HKers are protesting because (for historical and economical reasons) they have been blessed by an incredible fortune, a fortune that's shaming away. We could talk about reasons and sides, but that's misleading and unproductive. The sad reality is that China is a "Unitary one-party socialist republic", a bad euphemism for an undemocratic country ruled by a single dictatorial party. There's a lot of misinformation surrounding the violence of protesters, but let's not forget that these officers are protecting the interests of a regime.
- rruieews 7y ago
  Here are videos of protestors beating cops and other innocent bystanders, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1nW7Oa3mc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1nW7Oa3mc
  - ptx 7y ago
    The video looks consistent with that I've heard reported elsewhere: Protestors are not attacking people, only symbols of the Chinese government. The violence that has been perpetrated has been directed towards the protestors, e.g. the knife attack on a protestor, the fireworks shot at protestors (seen in the video) and various excesses of the police.
harimau777 7y ago
Is it generally thought that the protesters attacking police are legitimate protesters as opposed to agent provocateurs?
- Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
  They could be provocateurs, and sadly there’s no way to verify this for now. My point is, to judge things fair and square you gotta hear from both sides:D
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    Having read all your comments it seems your point is to introduce doubt and muddy the waters. It's a classic propaganda tactic which is routinely employed by the CCP. It might work on reddit but it will take more than that here.
    - girvo 7y ago
      I certainly hope that it requires more than that here. It seems pretty transparent to me, but others are defending it, so I’m unsure if we’re really as immune as we’d like to think
paganel 7y ago
> and eventually kill that No such bill is killed "for good" as long as the people who proposed it are still in power and the protesters know that. > Many protesters are now actively attacking police force even if unprovoked. If true this is very regrettable, but once you go up against the institution which has the monopoly of using violence what other realistic means are there? Afaik they did try the non-violent way a couple of years back but those protests gave no concrete results and their leaders were eventually arrested nonetheless.
lewi 7y ago
Claims without citations, 5 day old account, comment history shows user is from china: not sure if I'd trust the comment.
- majia 7y ago
  Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from personal attack. Assume good faith and be substantive.
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    What wasn't substantive about the GP's post? It was factual to a fault.
    - majia 7y ago
      Being substantive means replying to the actual argument instead of questioning the credibility of the person who makes an argument.
      - rorykoehler 7y ago
        The OP started without substance while trying to smear HKers fighting for their freedom from the authoritarian CCP so why attack the person who highlights the suspicious nature of the accusers account? We live in a world of ever increasing propaganda. Pointing it out is as substantive as it gets. If anything your message is better suited for the OP. They did exactly what you are flagging the child comment for.
        majia 7y ago
        If you think OP is smearing, you can refute his argument with facts and flag his comment. It’s a human bias to think someone whom we disagree with has a malicious agenda. Democracy can survive the worst oppression, but will perish if we fail to conduct civilized discussion and start accusing and labeling each other when we disagree.
hcheung 7y ago
> is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people. You called "elected" by a group consists of 1200 people as elected by Hong Kong people?
- Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
  There is no perfect election format, even if the presidential election of US is often discussed for possible modifications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election#Proposed_changes_to_the_election_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...
  - hcheung 7y ago
    At least it is voted by the people no matter how imperfect it is. 1200 people is hardly a definition of "by people".
    - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
      It's an electoral college system. By this logic, the US president is elected by only 538 "people".
      - loyukfai 7y ago
        AFAIK, those 538 people follow the decisions made earlier by the majority people. Those 1200 definitely aren't. Yes, the US system may not be perfect, but to put both on the same balance is such a misleading comparison.
PlasticTank 7y ago
> Hong Kong, at least on paper, is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people Except it's not, top leadership is elected by a small council of business owners and other high ranking members of society, the people they are allowed to vote for are selected by Beijing and anyone they don't like is vetoed out.
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Also, half of the Legislative Council are elected by "functional constituency" including even agriculture and fishery. These constituencies are largely pro-establishment and anti-democratic. And in the last election, the government was able to even disqualify candidates from the general election. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/12/breaking-hong-kong-bans-democrat-lau-siu-lai-standing-kowloon-west-election/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/12/breaking-hong-kong-ban...
Riverheart 7y ago
"Hong Kong government was quick to withdrawn and eventually kill that bill but the protest got bigger regardless as they see the government is too pro-China" There was public opposition since it was proposed in February but they only backed down in the presence of overwhelming public outcry and blamed the public for misunderstanding the intent of the bill. They were not "quick" nor were they easily persuaded to back down. They could easily reintroduce it after protests died down.

thenaturalist 7y ago

What's your source for claims 3 & 4?

darkhorn 7y ago
You can see their propaganda here https://reddit.com/r/sino https://reddit.com/r/sino This is pro-China propaganda sub-reddit. For example if you write something that they don't like then they are going to ban you for life. Very interesting, it is like from Soviet Union or North Korea.

JulianMorrison 7y ago

The pictures we're seeing is of cops beating, rubber-shooting and tear-gassing protesters in tight spaces without obvious provocation.

Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
Every story has two sides and things on the other side - police officers bitten to bleed or eyes flashed by high power laser pointers. The sad thing is, we gotta take whatever the media feeds us:)
- tgragnato 7y ago
  HKers are protesting because (for historical and economical reasons) they have been blessed by an incredible fortune, a fortune that's shaming away. We could talk about reasons and sides, but that's misleading and unproductive. The sad reality is that China is a "Unitary one-party socialist republic", a bad euphemism for an undemocratic country ruled by a single dictatorial party. There's a lot of misinformation surrounding the violence of protesters, but let's not forget that these officers are protecting the interests of a regime.
rruieews 7y ago
Here are videos of protestors beating cops and other innocent bystanders, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1nW7Oa3mc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1nW7Oa3mc
- ptx 7y ago
  The video looks consistent with that I've heard reported elsewhere: Protestors are not attacking people, only symbols of the Chinese government. The violence that has been perpetrated has been directed towards the protestors, e.g. the knife attack on a protestor, the fireworks shot at protestors (seen in the video) and various excesses of the police.

harimau777 7y ago

Is it generally thought that the protesters attacking police are legitimate protesters as opposed to agent provocateurs?

Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
They could be provocateurs, and sadly there’s no way to verify this for now. My point is, to judge things fair and square you gotta hear from both sides:D
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  Having read all your comments it seems your point is to introduce doubt and muddy the waters. It's a classic propaganda tactic which is routinely employed by the CCP. It might work on reddit but it will take more than that here.
  - girvo 7y ago
    I certainly hope that it requires more than that here. It seems pretty transparent to me, but others are defending it, so I’m unsure if we’re really as immune as we’d like to think

paganel 7y ago

> and eventually kill that No such bill is killed "for good" as long as the people who proposed it are still in power and the protesters know that. > Many protesters are now actively attacking police force even if unprovoked. If true this is very regrettable, but once you go up against the institution which has the monopoly of using violence what other realistic means are there? Afaik they did try the non-violent way a couple of years back but those protests gave no concrete results and their leaders were eventually arrested nonetheless.

lewi 7y ago

Claims without citations, 5 day old account, comment history shows user is from china: not sure if I'd trust the comment.

majia 7y ago
Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from personal attack. Assume good faith and be substantive.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  What wasn't substantive about the GP's post? It was factual to a fault.
  - majia 7y ago
    Being substantive means replying to the actual argument instead of questioning the credibility of the person who makes an argument.
    - rorykoehler 7y ago
      The OP started without substance while trying to smear HKers fighting for their freedom from the authoritarian CCP so why attack the person who highlights the suspicious nature of the accusers account? We live in a world of ever increasing propaganda. Pointing it out is as substantive as it gets. If anything your message is better suited for the OP. They did exactly what you are flagging the child comment for.
      - majia 7y ago
        If you think OP is smearing, you can refute his argument with facts and flag his comment. It’s a human bias to think someone whom we disagree with has a malicious agenda. Democracy can survive the worst oppression, but will perish if we fail to conduct civilized discussion and start accusing and labeling each other when we disagree.

hcheung 7y ago

> is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people. You called "elected" by a group consists of 1200 people as elected by Hong Kong people?

Tigah_pawszzz 7y ago
There is no perfect election format, even if the presidential election of US is often discussed for possible modifications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election#Proposed_changes_to_the_election_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...
- hcheung 7y ago
  At least it is voted by the people no matter how imperfect it is. 1200 people is hardly a definition of "by people".
  - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
    It's an electoral college system. By this logic, the US president is elected by only 538 "people".
    - loyukfai 7y ago
      AFAIK, those 538 people follow the decisions made earlier by the majority people. Those 1200 definitely aren't. Yes, the US system may not be perfect, but to put both on the same balance is such a misleading comparison.

PlasticTank 7y ago

> Hong Kong, at least on paper, is ruled by a governing entity elected by Hong Kong people Except it's not, top leadership is elected by a small council of business owners and other high ranking members of society, the people they are allowed to vote for are selected by Beijing and anyone they don't like is vetoed out.

loyukfai 7y ago
Also, half of the Legislative Council are elected by "functional constituency" including even agriculture and fishery. These constituencies are largely pro-establishment and anti-democratic. And in the last election, the government was able to even disqualify candidates from the general election. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/12/breaking-hong-kong-bans-democrat-lau-siu-lai-standing-kowloon-west-election/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/12/breaking-hong-kong-ban...

Riverheart 7y ago

"Hong Kong government was quick to withdrawn and eventually kill that bill but the protest got bigger regardless as they see the government is too pro-China" There was public opposition since it was proposed in February but they only backed down in the presence of overwhelming public outcry and blamed the public for misunderstanding the intent of the bill. They were not "quick" nor were they easily persuaded to back down. They could easily reintroduce it after protests died down.