5 ms·

First of all, kudos for your nickname. A lot of what makes the society ticks -especially any society deeply rooted in materialism like ours today- is very hard

First of all, kudos for your nickname. A lot of what makes the society ticks -especially any society deeply rooted in materialism like ours today- is very hard to justify even when you are in a just-sane state of mind. See "bullshit jobs" for a longer treatise of that. Yes, you can focus better on the things you wanted to focus on but you would probably find it very hard to convince yourself to focus doing the work you currently do as hypersanity would probably have its importance stripped away.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
So if I am starving, have no money for my interests, and yet have ambitions - and cannot find a fully fullfilling job, are you saying that I will not be able to go to a "bullshit job", because I will be under the impression that sitting at home meditating or looking at trees is more important than getting food through work? That to me sounds like laziness or victim complex, or a couple of other things, but really not something I would call "sanity".
- serpix 7y ago
  Your problem starts with having a problem starving. All the rest of your suffering follows from there. If starving for a bit is not a problem then looking at trees is bliss. Laziness/victim complex is impossible unless there is a fundamental desire or conflict against just being in whatever there is. The hypersane/enlightened/realized whatever you call it have no problems whatsoever with what is happening and thus they do not suffer.
  - Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    The question was whether they would be able to operate in a society. We did not discuss nor touch whether they suffer or not.
    - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
      I would like to think that a hyper-rational would opt out of society in general. Not relying on the conventional ways of sustenance that we are accustomed to. One example of this is the survivalist, that lives in nature. One could start incrementally moving towards minimalism, acquiring the training and skills to farm and hurt animals and finally step outside of organized society. This is something I have been thinking about lately. To what extent is technological progress and economic growth truly useful?
      - heavenlyblue 7y ago
        The progress is useless unless you get a serious tooth infection or a cancer and then you’ll die in vain alone in the forest.
      - pcstl 7y ago
        Spoken like a true resident of the First World. When progress is so ubiquitous in your environment that it becomes invisible, it's easy to forget that people die of easily treatable diseases in places that don't have so much "technological progress", that people still starve because of a lack of "economic growth", and so on and so forth.
        JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        Actually not so much any more. So-called third world countries have moved decisively in the first-world direction for a century. Of course there's still rationed health care and narrow food choices. But easily-treatable diseases? Starvation? More rare by the year.
        pcstl 7y ago
        And that's exactly my point. We are making actual progress, we are changing people's lives for the better, but if you live in the first world, you won't feel that, as most of the Big Issues of human life have already been solved. The first world is currently struggling with Big Issues that are a level above that, such as global warming, which the average person doesn't feel impact their life so directly. That is why technological progress and economic growth matter.
  - meshenna 7y ago
    Isn't that just run-of-the-mill stoicism?
    - majewsky 7y ago
      Sounds more like Buddhism to me ("all existence is suffering" and so on). Stoicism has you recognize that (to simplify dramatically) you cannot change other people, only yourself. Stoicism consequently places a large emphasis on getting your mind and body in order, so it probably would not argue for allowing yourself to starve.
      - meshenna 7y ago
        Yeah, I suppose... The post I was replying to just sounded to me a lot like something Epictetus could've said. As in, you shouldn't mind starving if you can't help it. Now that I think about it, my memory of Epictetus seems to be really hazy, so I probably shouldn't try to discuss stoicism without doing some re-reading and thinking first.
- weeOooweoo 7y ago
  Most ambitions people express anymore require a great society to provide the experience. See a band live, fly around the world... We craft ambitions within the social framework. As I’m seeing it, hypersane people do not possess concern for “normal” social ambitions. They aren’t nihilist, and still find life inherently interesting. Just find the usual social hierarchy and chasing those needs as secondary. As obligations foisted at them. They use them, sure, because they still appreciate life and have interests. It’s a weird concept as it’s not as if we can climb inside someone and measure their emotional response to external pressures. And I get the feeling that’s why it’s difficult to grok; despite how it might feel like everyone around us is pretty typical, we’re individually capable of a variety of responses to external stimuli. Lots of people might get really anxious about environmental collapse, or political unrest. A hypersane person, think maybe like Buddha, will react more like “Yep and individually there’s not shit we can do to stop a collective action problem. Imma go sit by a tree in peace rather than worry about saving normality.”
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  You will be able to get a bullshit job, but you will find it extraordinarily hard to keep because your managers will find you too odd unless you are good at pretending to be normal.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

So if I am starving, have no money for my interests, and yet have ambitions - and cannot find a fully fullfilling job, are you saying that I will not be able to go to a "bullshit job", because I will be under the impression that sitting at home meditating or looking at trees is more important than getting food through work? That to me sounds like laziness or victim complex, or a couple of other things, but really not something I would call "sanity".

serpix 7y ago
Your problem starts with having a problem starving. All the rest of your suffering follows from there. If starving for a bit is not a problem then looking at trees is bliss. Laziness/victim complex is impossible unless there is a fundamental desire or conflict against just being in whatever there is. The hypersane/enlightened/realized whatever you call it have no problems whatsoever with what is happening and thus they do not suffer.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  The question was whether they would be able to operate in a society. We did not discuss nor touch whether they suffer or not.
  - oldsklgdfth 7y ago
    I would like to think that a hyper-rational would opt out of society in general. Not relying on the conventional ways of sustenance that we are accustomed to. One example of this is the survivalist, that lives in nature. One could start incrementally moving towards minimalism, acquiring the training and skills to farm and hurt animals and finally step outside of organized society. This is something I have been thinking about lately. To what extent is technological progress and economic growth truly useful?
    - heavenlyblue 7y ago
      The progress is useless unless you get a serious tooth infection or a cancer and then you’ll die in vain alone in the forest.
    - pcstl 7y ago
      Spoken like a true resident of the First World. When progress is so ubiquitous in your environment that it becomes invisible, it's easy to forget that people die of easily treatable diseases in places that don't have so much "technological progress", that people still starve because of a lack of "economic growth", and so on and so forth.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        Actually not so much any more. So-called third world countries have moved decisively in the first-world direction for a century. Of course there's still rationed health care and narrow food choices. But easily-treatable diseases? Starvation? More rare by the year.
        pcstl 7y ago
        And that's exactly my point. We are making actual progress, we are changing people's lives for the better, but if you live in the first world, you won't feel that, as most of the Big Issues of human life have already been solved. The first world is currently struggling with Big Issues that are a level above that, such as global warming, which the average person doesn't feel impact their life so directly. That is why technological progress and economic growth matter.
- meshenna 7y ago
  Isn't that just run-of-the-mill stoicism?
  - majewsky 7y ago
    Sounds more like Buddhism to me ("all existence is suffering" and so on). Stoicism has you recognize that (to simplify dramatically) you cannot change other people, only yourself. Stoicism consequently places a large emphasis on getting your mind and body in order, so it probably would not argue for allowing yourself to starve.
    - meshenna 7y ago
      Yeah, I suppose... The post I was replying to just sounded to me a lot like something Epictetus could've said. As in, you shouldn't mind starving if you can't help it. Now that I think about it, my memory of Epictetus seems to be really hazy, so I probably shouldn't try to discuss stoicism without doing some re-reading and thinking first.
weeOooweoo 7y ago
Most ambitions people express anymore require a great society to provide the experience. See a band live, fly around the world... We craft ambitions within the social framework. As I’m seeing it, hypersane people do not possess concern for “normal” social ambitions. They aren’t nihilist, and still find life inherently interesting. Just find the usual social hierarchy and chasing those needs as secondary. As obligations foisted at them. They use them, sure, because they still appreciate life and have interests. It’s a weird concept as it’s not as if we can climb inside someone and measure their emotional response to external pressures. And I get the feeling that’s why it’s difficult to grok; despite how it might feel like everyone around us is pretty typical, we’re individually capable of a variety of responses to external stimuli. Lots of people might get really anxious about environmental collapse, or political unrest. A hypersane person, think maybe like Buddha, will react more like “Yep and individually there’s not shit we can do to stop a collective action problem. Imma go sit by a tree in peace rather than worry about saving normality.”
inflatableDodo 7y ago
You will be able to get a bullshit job, but you will find it extraordinarily hard to keep because your managers will find you too odd unless you are good at pretending to be normal.