4 ms·

"You (or other skeptics), saying it's not a great resource (while ignoring all evidence already provided)." No, simply pointing out that it's your job in this

"You (or other skeptics), saying it's not a great resource (while ignoring all evidence already provided)." No, simply pointing out that it's your job in this discussion to present that evidence, not to try the frequently disingenuous tactics of "Oh, if you knew anything about this subject you'd know this is the greatest site EVAR" or "I'm saying this site is great. You have to do the legwork to dare to doubt me!". I'm not claiming anything about the site that you're stanning for. I'm simply doubting the tales of rainbow unicorn farts and victimization by Google that people like you are pushing here. But then, you are a very easy person to doubt. Your knee-jerk hostility to "skeptics" makes me think you push a lot of woo to anyone who has the misfortune to be stuck listening to you.

data_required 7y ago
"No, simply pointing out that it's your job in this discussion to present that evidence" I have provided evidence. (I've even included the unique evidence of personal experience. Hundreds of hours of research & experimentation- research on multiple websites- from someone with no vested financial interest, should count for something.) I am also asserting that skeptics should also provide evidence. It's like in a courtroom- both the prosecution and the defense should provide evidence. And again, the task for the skeptic is far easier- they only have to find a single superior resource, among thousands of possible contenders. And if you want to be an effective skeptic, you should probably try to add some compelling evidence to your skepticism. It's in your interest to add evidence, if you are really such a big believer in your skepticism. (I don't hate skepticism btw- normally I am a skeptic, that's why my nickname is "data_required"- I just dislike the lazy reflexive style of skepticism on display in this thread.) And if I knew of other evidence to add besides what was in the comments section so far (having read all of the comments), I would add it. The only other thing I can think of is that I know that the user "silverhydra" posts a lot on reddit, and is heavily involved with Examine. So I guess you can see a track record of how an employee of theirs behaves in an online forum. "I'm simply doubting the tales of rainbow unicorn farts and victimization by Google that people like you are pushing here." Why do you feel the need to exaggerate? How do you go from reading a claim of "great resource for information!" to "rainbow unicorn farts"? Nobody has even asserted that Examine is the only site people should use, or that it is absolutely authoritative. HN is filled with skeptics (compared to the general population), and Examine is clearly popular among skeptics. Maybe that should count for something? It's not like anybody has claimed they used the site to figure out how to cure their own cancer. You know what I mean? Also, nobody from Examine asserted that Google is trying to deliberately harm the company. (Nor am I asserting it.) The blog post was a rather polite complaint, with evidence attached, that they had mystifyingly lost the prominence in search results which they once had. And numerous people have documented that other search engines (Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc.) have much more respect for Examine. It's a Google-specific complaint, and appears to be due to a generic update to their algorithm.
- LordAtlas 7y ago
  You're clearly not familiar with the "burden of proof" principle. Go ahead, google it, especially given that you mention legal cases. The person who makes a particular assertion has the onus of proving the same. Like one of the previous posters said, we are flooded with people making bullshit claims of how something like homeopathy "works" because they know it from personal experience, and we shouldn't have to be the ones to disprove nonsense like that. > It's like in a courtroom- both the prosecution and the defense should provide evidence. You're mistaken. In criminal cases, the burden is on the prosecution to establish their case beyond all reasonable doubt. The defence does not have to prove innocence; it merely has to establish there is insufficient evidence for a guilty verdict.
  - data_required 7y ago
    "The person who makes a particular assertion has the onus of proving the same." But both sides are making assertions. The appreciators of Examine and other resources, are not the only people making assertions. And the assertion that Examine isn't the best- the skeptics position- should be far easier to prove. For some reason, that one guy will go to great lengths to make the general case for skepticism, when the specific case for skepticism- that there are sufficient websites objectively better than Examine such that Examine shouldn't be ranked near the top- should in theory be much easier to establish. But he avoids that at every turn. "In criminal cases, the burden is on the prosecution to establish their case beyond all reasonable doubt. The defence does not have to prove innocence; it merely has to establish there is insufficient evidence for a guilty verdict." Lol. As though the defense never provides evidence boosting their client. But thanks for telling me what anybody could ever tell you who has served on a jury, or had a class in basic civics. Look, skeptics need to furnish evidence, too. The people who appreciate Examine have provided a ton of evidence. It is LAZY LAZY LAZY that every skeptic wants to avoid digging deep. I've already DONE immense research on supplements and the websites providing information about them. So have many others. None of the skeptics in this thread are people who claim to be familiar with this domain. They just want to act like they are superior know-it-alls because they can lazily tout the general merits of skepticism. Just like the defense will eagerly provide any evidence of innocence that they can muster, it is in the interests of skeptics to furnish evidence that the skeptical position is warranted. But few skeptics in this thread seem to want to do that. If they think there is something better, they should let the rest of us know. Or they should build it themselves.
data_required 7y ago
Also, it's rude of you to keep downvoting my replies to you. If you apparently respect the discussion enough to continue it, you don't need to automatically downvote everything, especially when you refuse to put in any evidentiary work yourself. Stop being so petty.
- Semiapies 7y ago
  So that you know, in case you haunt this place in the future, posters here can't downvote direct responses to their posts. That's other people doing that. When enough people downvote your posts, that's when they start turning lighter and lighter gray.
  - data_required 7y ago
    "in case you haunt this place in the future" I've "haunted" this place since the first day it existed (though with other nicknames), and will doubtless haunt it for years to come. I just normally lurk, not comment. This was just a topic important enough to bring me out of the woodwork. "posters here can't downvote direct responses to their posts." I did not know this, thank you for explaining. Apparently someone is following our discussion and almost instantly downvoting me each time (I guess...) I never experienced that before, so I thought it was you. My apologies, apparently you are not rude like I thought.
  - data_required 7y ago
    Also, to be honest, none of my comments shows as grey, but a couple of yours do. I don't get it. (I do have one comment showing as -1, previously -2).
    - Semiapies 7y ago
      Can't help you with that; every other post you've made is pretty faded to me.

data_required 7y ago

"No, simply pointing out that it's your job in this discussion to present that evidence" I have provided evidence. (I've even included the unique evidence of personal experience. Hundreds of hours of research & experimentation- research on multiple websites- from someone with no vested financial interest, should count for something.) I am also asserting that skeptics should also provide evidence. It's like in a courtroom- both the prosecution and the defense should provide evidence. And again, the task for the skeptic is far easier- they only have to find a single superior resource, among thousands of possible contenders. And if you want to be an effective skeptic, you should probably try to add some compelling evidence to your skepticism. It's in your interest to add evidence, if you are really such a big believer in your skepticism. (I don't hate skepticism btw- normally I am a skeptic, that's why my nickname is "data_required"- I just dislike the lazy reflexive style of skepticism on display in this thread.) And if I knew of other evidence to add besides what was in the comments section so far (having read all of the comments), I would add it. The only other thing I can think of is that I know that the user "silverhydra" posts a lot on reddit, and is heavily involved with Examine. So I guess you can see a track record of how an employee of theirs behaves in an online forum. "I'm simply doubting the tales of rainbow unicorn farts and victimization by Google that people like you are pushing here." Why do you feel the need to exaggerate? How do you go from reading a claim of "great resource for information!" to "rainbow unicorn farts"? Nobody has even asserted that Examine is the only site people should use, or that it is absolutely authoritative. HN is filled with skeptics (compared to the general population), and Examine is clearly popular among skeptics. Maybe that should count for something? It's not like anybody has claimed they used the site to figure out how to cure their own cancer. You know what I mean? Also, nobody from Examine asserted that Google is trying to deliberately harm the company. (Nor am I asserting it.) The blog post was a rather polite complaint, with evidence attached, that they had mystifyingly lost the prominence in search results which they once had. And numerous people have documented that other search engines (Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc.) have much more respect for Examine. It's a Google-specific complaint, and appears to be due to a generic update to their algorithm.

LordAtlas 7y ago
You're clearly not familiar with the "burden of proof" principle. Go ahead, google it, especially given that you mention legal cases. The person who makes a particular assertion has the onus of proving the same. Like one of the previous posters said, we are flooded with people making bullshit claims of how something like homeopathy "works" because they know it from personal experience, and we shouldn't have to be the ones to disprove nonsense like that. > It's like in a courtroom- both the prosecution and the defense should provide evidence. You're mistaken. In criminal cases, the burden is on the prosecution to establish their case beyond all reasonable doubt. The defence does not have to prove innocence; it merely has to establish there is insufficient evidence for a guilty verdict.
- data_required 7y ago
  "The person who makes a particular assertion has the onus of proving the same." But both sides are making assertions. The appreciators of Examine and other resources, are not the only people making assertions. And the assertion that Examine isn't the best- the skeptics position- should be far easier to prove. For some reason, that one guy will go to great lengths to make the general case for skepticism, when the specific case for skepticism- that there are sufficient websites objectively better than Examine such that Examine shouldn't be ranked near the top- should in theory be much easier to establish. But he avoids that at every turn. "In criminal cases, the burden is on the prosecution to establish their case beyond all reasonable doubt. The defence does not have to prove innocence; it merely has to establish there is insufficient evidence for a guilty verdict." Lol. As though the defense never provides evidence boosting their client. But thanks for telling me what anybody could ever tell you who has served on a jury, or had a class in basic civics. Look, skeptics need to furnish evidence, too. The people who appreciate Examine have provided a ton of evidence. It is LAZY LAZY LAZY that every skeptic wants to avoid digging deep. I've already DONE immense research on supplements and the websites providing information about them. So have many others. None of the skeptics in this thread are people who claim to be familiar with this domain. They just want to act like they are superior know-it-alls because they can lazily tout the general merits of skepticism. Just like the defense will eagerly provide any evidence of innocence that they can muster, it is in the interests of skeptics to furnish evidence that the skeptical position is warranted. But few skeptics in this thread seem to want to do that. If they think there is something better, they should let the rest of us know. Or they should build it themselves.

data_required 7y ago

Also, it's rude of you to keep downvoting my replies to you. If you apparently respect the discussion enough to continue it, you don't need to automatically downvote everything, especially when you refuse to put in any evidentiary work yourself. Stop being so petty.

Semiapies 7y ago
So that you know, in case you haunt this place in the future, posters here can't downvote direct responses to their posts. That's other people doing that. When enough people downvote your posts, that's when they start turning lighter and lighter gray.
- data_required 7y ago
  "in case you haunt this place in the future" I've "haunted" this place since the first day it existed (though with other nicknames), and will doubtless haunt it for years to come. I just normally lurk, not comment. This was just a topic important enough to bring me out of the woodwork. "posters here can't downvote direct responses to their posts." I did not know this, thank you for explaining. Apparently someone is following our discussion and almost instantly downvoting me each time (I guess...) I never experienced that before, so I thought it was you. My apologies, apparently you are not rude like I thought.
- data_required 7y ago
  Also, to be honest, none of my comments shows as grey, but a couple of yours do. I don't get it. (I do have one comment showing as -1, previously -2).
  - Semiapies 7y ago
    Can't help you with that; every other post you've made is pretty faded to me.