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The disregard is universal. Those people who disregard bicyclists and pedestrians are also disregarding drivers. A lot of it is ignorance and incompetence. And

The disregard is universal. Those people who disregard bicyclists and pedestrians are also disregarding drivers. A lot of it is ignorance and incompetence. And it works both ways. Pedestrians and bicyclists (most of whom are also drivers) equally have disregard for others. It’s just that usually they’re only going to hurt themselves or inconvenience someone. Just in the past two days I’ve seen: A driver turn make an unprotected left through traffic going straight in the other direction and through pedestrians in the crosswalk. A bicyclist skip a stop sign and turn left in front my car. (It’s rare I see a bicyclist stop for stop signs at all.) A pedestrian standing on the corner pointed at an angle towards the intersection giving no indication to any of the traffic if he was intending to cross and in what direction. A driver run a red light full seconds after it was red. A driver stop in the middle of the road for no apparent reason. (Uber/Lyft drivers frequently do this even when they could pull out and in easily.) A driver pass someone in the turning lane while skipping a stop sign and then doing about 2x the speed limit. A bicyclist give a driver the finger when the driver was making a legal right on green and the bicyclist was trying to pass on the right.

kiliantics 7y ago
In your final example, the cyclist is justified because drivers are supposed to wait for cyclists when they make a right turn, just as they are supposed to wait for pedestrians. Most of your examples are of drivers making mistakes and, when drivers make mistakes, the odds are higher that a large mass of steel will hit people at high momentum. This is not the case when pedestrians or cyclists make mistakes. We should focus on why we have so many cars on the road and why they are driven by people who are not responsible.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  Actually, no. Drivers here are required to yield to a bicyclist already in the bike lane and then enter the bike lane and turn from the curb. He did. The cyclist showed up later and tried to pass on the right, in the legal sense. The heavy focus on “cars suck” isn’t realistic here. The reasons why are well known. The cities and especially the suburbs were built around cars. You won’t catch me arguing against much more difficult to acquire licenses or more bike lanes or better crosswalks. You won’t even catch me arguing against fewer cars. But it’s going to be a long time before there’s significantly fewer cars. The idea that drivers are the only ones out there responsible for safety is reflected in the dangerous and inconsiderate behavior of bicyclists and pedestrians. The reality is all three groups need education. But culturally the bicyclists don’t care and the pedestrians are lead to believe drivers are always at fault, causing them to do things like step into a crosswalk unexpectedly after a car is already halfway through the intersection.
  - kd5bjo 7y ago
    > causing them to do things like step into a crosswalk unexpectedly after a car is already halfway through the intersection. Every place I’ve lived in the US, the pedestrian’s right of way is maintained as long as they enter the crosswalk before the car does, and the status of the adjoining intersection is immaterial. In California law, there’s legally a crosswalk at every intersection with sidewalks, even if there aren’t any markings on the road. A green signal doesn’t absolve a driver of these responsibilities; just like with a blind corner, drivers must slow down to a speed where they can react appropriately to pedestrians. Pedestrians are so rare, however, that cars don’t know how to deal with them. I’ve never seen a driver in the US stop for someone who is waiting to enter a crosswalk, only ones that have actually started to cross.
    - cgriswald 7y ago
      Pedestrians aren't rare in my area. Also, there's legally a crosswalk at every intersection, not just intersections with sidewalks. The part most pedestrians seem to miss is that they also have a duty of care. That means, even if the driver should yield right-of-way, you can't just step out in front of them. If you do, you'll probably be found partially responsible, which will reduce the amount you can win in court. > I’ve never seen a driver in the US stop for someone who is waiting to enter a crosswalk, only ones that have actually started to cross. I do this all the time and see it fairly regularly. About 5% of the time, the person isn't even trying to cross. (Waiting for an Uber maybe?) Pedestrians need to make their intentions known. It's actually really easy. I do it all the time. Stick your hand out in the direction you're trying to cross and try to make eye contact.

kiliantics 7y ago

In your final example, the cyclist is justified because drivers are supposed to wait for cyclists when they make a right turn, just as they are supposed to wait for pedestrians. Most of your examples are of drivers making mistakes and, when drivers make mistakes, the odds are higher that a large mass of steel will hit people at high momentum. This is not the case when pedestrians or cyclists make mistakes. We should focus on why we have so many cars on the road and why they are driven by people who are not responsible.

cgriswald 7y ago
Actually, no. Drivers here are required to yield to a bicyclist already in the bike lane and then enter the bike lane and turn from the curb. He did. The cyclist showed up later and tried to pass on the right, in the legal sense. The heavy focus on “cars suck” isn’t realistic here. The reasons why are well known. The cities and especially the suburbs were built around cars. You won’t catch me arguing against much more difficult to acquire licenses or more bike lanes or better crosswalks. You won’t even catch me arguing against fewer cars. But it’s going to be a long time before there’s significantly fewer cars. The idea that drivers are the only ones out there responsible for safety is reflected in the dangerous and inconsiderate behavior of bicyclists and pedestrians. The reality is all three groups need education. But culturally the bicyclists don’t care and the pedestrians are lead to believe drivers are always at fault, causing them to do things like step into a crosswalk unexpectedly after a car is already halfway through the intersection.
- kd5bjo 7y ago
  > causing them to do things like step into a crosswalk unexpectedly after a car is already halfway through the intersection. Every place I’ve lived in the US, the pedestrian’s right of way is maintained as long as they enter the crosswalk before the car does, and the status of the adjoining intersection is immaterial. In California law, there’s legally a crosswalk at every intersection with sidewalks, even if there aren’t any markings on the road. A green signal doesn’t absolve a driver of these responsibilities; just like with a blind corner, drivers must slow down to a speed where they can react appropriately to pedestrians. Pedestrians are so rare, however, that cars don’t know how to deal with them. I’ve never seen a driver in the US stop for someone who is waiting to enter a crosswalk, only ones that have actually started to cross.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    Pedestrians aren't rare in my area. Also, there's legally a crosswalk at every intersection, not just intersections with sidewalks. The part most pedestrians seem to miss is that they also have a duty of care. That means, even if the driver should yield right-of-way, you can't just step out in front of them. If you do, you'll probably be found partially responsible, which will reduce the amount you can win in court. > I’ve never seen a driver in the US stop for someone who is waiting to enter a crosswalk, only ones that have actually started to cross. I do this all the time and see it fairly regularly. About 5% of the time, the person isn't even trying to cross. (Waiting for an Uber maybe?) Pedestrians need to make their intentions known. It's actually really easy. I do it all the time. Stick your hand out in the direction you're trying to cross and try to make eye contact.