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Many anxious men (and women) aren't suffering from an anxiety disorder. Their anxiety is a perfectly reasonable response to the life they are living. I'm fine w

Many anxious men (and women) aren't suffering from an anxiety disorder. Their anxiety is a perfectly reasonable response to the life they are living. I'm fine with therapy, meditation, and medication as long as they aren't used as tools to make it bearable to stay in a bad situation.

swamy_g 7y ago
Well said. Anxiety is sometimes a signal that there's an underlying imbalance in your life. Just like you start tearing up when you feel sad. Crying isn't bad in that scenario. Anxiety works similarly. You gotta start asking yourself, why am I feeling anxious? Where could my life be out of balance?
- rabidrat 7y ago
  What if the anxiety seems to come from a place of the entire human society being out of balance? I pretty much think if you're not feeling anxious, you're not paying attention.
  - dorchadas 7y ago
    You might like the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari. The premise of the book, from what I can remember, is a mix between yours and GP's comment. It's basically that things are being over-prescribed, such as depression if you haven't stopped grieving after a year from the death of a loved one, as well as it happening more because our basic human structures are crumbling (namely, community). I definitely want to do a reread of it and pursue some of his leads more.
    - jpernst 7y ago
      I'm glad somebody mentioned this book, I was just about to reply with it myself. I'd summarize the core premise as anxiety and depression, while some people are more naturally predisposed to them, aren't things that "just happen", and it's not your brain suddenly misfiring for no reason. Our culture has become increasingly individualized and isolated, in contrast to millions of years of evolutionary selection for tribal behavior in the great apes. Anxiety is a natural response to being separated from your tribe, since it increases your risk exposure to many things. It's not enough to just have colleagues or acquaintances, but people who actually know and care about you and will notice if you're missing or if something is wrong. A fantastic book. I borrowed it from the library, but I think I'm going to buy my own copy.
  - chubot 7y ago
    Do you think that society is more out of balance now than it was 30, 50, 70, or 100 years ago? If so, I’ll be glib and say you haven’t paid enough attention to history :-) To pick a random anecdote, in the past senators have been physically attacked and maimed by their colleagues on the senate floor, i.e. while at work. Campaigns were dirtier than they are now. Politicians would accuse each other of being murderers and even cannibals. (e.g. look up the coffin bills and Andrew Jackson.) The mainstream media printed many things that would be unacceptable today. (Jon Stewart had a good bit about this a long time ago.) Not to mention the total war involving multiple continents that happened a couple times in the last century... Not to say we should think that stuff will never happen again. It absolutely could. But depending on your viewpoint we’ve always been on the brink of collapse, or on the brink of greatness, etc. ----- Also, I don't believe that reading or watching news counts as "paying attention", especially if you're not in the position to take any action as a result (i.e. you don't work in politics, policy, etc.). It's generally a very passive activity. The time would be better spent observing what's going on in your town/city rather than "the world". Or even just doing something constructive in your area of expertise, e.g. writing free software, etc.
    - nostrademons 7y ago
      Standards are higher now. We're more aware of more potential emotional triggers. I've observed that with the Internet increasing our potential access to information by > 1000x, the adaptive emotional response to any given piece of information needs to be toned down by a factor of 1000x to maintain emotional stability. Wouldn't make me very popular at parties to say that the proper emotional response to kids getting murdered at a festival is to shrug your shoulders and say "By the numbers, your odds of getting killed in a mass shooting are still one in a million, which is less than when we were kids", but that's both a true and a rational statement to make.
      - asdff 7y ago
        Personally, I find it a little grotesque how many people share in these poor parent's horrifying tragedy. So much airtime and public eyes watching the absolute worst day of your life as a parent on national television and all over the internet. It's pretty horrible all around yet uniquely American. What I think is worse is the contrast of how flippant people are with flu shots. We rightfully scorn anti-vaxxers, yet people aren't lining up to get their flu shot every year. 50000 people died from the flu in the U.S. alone last year. That's sixteen 9/11s, and almost as many U.S. soldiers were killed in action in the entire Vietnam war. In one flu season. There's nothing political about the flu, nothing to be outraged about (except if you are me), no votes or money to be made by people reading and sharing it's coverage, and therefore it is buried into the footnotes far below the more profitable ad spend. Another statistic, but something that everyone could actually do something about if they walked into a CVS and got their fucking free shot.
nness 7y ago
This comment couldn't be more counter-productive. The article makes it clear that a feeling of anxiety at certain times is completely normal; it is when that anxiety is affects your daily life, causing you distress, or leads to depression or harm should it be concidered an anxiety disorder. The article notes that men can react to or present with anxiety differently; and that representation is ignored, leading to a reduction in their quality of life. Dimissing it, as you have, is exactly what prevents men from receiving mental health support and society, at large, from recognising mental health issues in men.
- nickjj 7y ago
  > ...it is when that anxiety is affects your daily life, causing you distress, or leads to depression or harm should it be concidered an anxiety disorder. But what if your lifestyle is the cause of that anxiety / depression? I think that's what the commenter was trying to say. Imagine working long hours in a job you hate to barely live pay check to pay check, and on top of that you're in a poor relationship. Every minute of every day is worrying about paying your next bill. You have no savings and are in debt. You haven't been on vacation in 15+ years and every time you enter your apartment, it's uncomfortable because you either fight with your partner or you ignore each other, but you stay together because you can't afford to live on your own. On top of that your diet is garbage because poor nutritional foods are usually cheaper than healthy foods unless you're a master cook, but who has the time or energy for that with the above life style. The above is pretty common for a lot of people. Maybe not everything happens to everyone at once, but all it takes is to be in a shitty work situation for little pay (very common) and that's enough to train your brain into thinking life is an un-escapable torture chamber. You'd have to be crazy not to always be on edge and depressed if that was your life day in and day out. Fortunately I'm not talking from personal experience from all of the above but I do like psychology and a number of respectful psychologists are in agreement that you can get in a very bad mental state from your life style and a lot of people have made drastic mental health improvements by removing the things that cause them daily stress.
- pizza 7y ago
  The GP's comment merely says that your environment can have a huge detrimental impact on your mental health. In no way is that dismissive of seeking help. They even applaud the use of the 'normal' tools. In fact, the scenario that you describe of a person exhibiting symptoms of anxiety disorder because every day is distressing is pretty much exactly the same scenario the GP is saying about a life-setup that is causing you harm.
TravHatesMe 7y ago
Well said! I frequently have anxious feelings in my day-to-day life. If I were to share that with my peers I think they might be surprised to hear it because I come across as solid, well-grounded person. I have learned to deal with these feelings. I have learned to deal with difficult situations -- but some times I can't and I fumble. That's OK. I wonder, at what point does such anxiety justify medication? Is there a measurable way of defining this disorder? (forgive my ignorance, I am genuinely curious). There are certainly cases where anxiety is clearly a disorder, but without a doubt it there are many cases where it is used as an excuse or a defensive mechanism, to avoid difficult situations or avoid one's own inadequacies. This kind of behavior is not good. They will refuse to challenge themselves by clutching to their excuse.
llamataboot 7y ago
First off, sometimes life circumstances are not changeable. Second off, any therapist worth anything will help you figure out what changes you could make in your life that would help your mental health. Third off, getting relief from some severity of symptoms, through any means, does not keep one from using the information in those symptoms.
awinder 7y ago
Life isn’t static either. Stress levels are normally peaking in late 20s/early 30s and then gradually declining until I think 70s? Anyways, yeah make moves to make your life better, but generally speaking good luck to you all on the field of battle in the middle years ;-).
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swamy_g 7y ago

Well said. Anxiety is sometimes a signal that there's an underlying imbalance in your life. Just like you start tearing up when you feel sad. Crying isn't bad in that scenario. Anxiety works similarly. You gotta start asking yourself, why am I feeling anxious? Where could my life be out of balance?

rabidrat 7y ago
What if the anxiety seems to come from a place of the entire human society being out of balance? I pretty much think if you're not feeling anxious, you're not paying attention.
- dorchadas 7y ago
  You might like the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari. The premise of the book, from what I can remember, is a mix between yours and GP's comment. It's basically that things are being over-prescribed, such as depression if you haven't stopped grieving after a year from the death of a loved one, as well as it happening more because our basic human structures are crumbling (namely, community). I definitely want to do a reread of it and pursue some of his leads more.
  - jpernst 7y ago
    I'm glad somebody mentioned this book, I was just about to reply with it myself. I'd summarize the core premise as anxiety and depression, while some people are more naturally predisposed to them, aren't things that "just happen", and it's not your brain suddenly misfiring for no reason. Our culture has become increasingly individualized and isolated, in contrast to millions of years of evolutionary selection for tribal behavior in the great apes. Anxiety is a natural response to being separated from your tribe, since it increases your risk exposure to many things. It's not enough to just have colleagues or acquaintances, but people who actually know and care about you and will notice if you're missing or if something is wrong. A fantastic book. I borrowed it from the library, but I think I'm going to buy my own copy.
- chubot 7y ago
  Do you think that society is more out of balance now than it was 30, 50, 70, or 100 years ago? If so, I’ll be glib and say you haven’t paid enough attention to history :-) To pick a random anecdote, in the past senators have been physically attacked and maimed by their colleagues on the senate floor, i.e. while at work. Campaigns were dirtier than they are now. Politicians would accuse each other of being murderers and even cannibals. (e.g. look up the coffin bills and Andrew Jackson.) The mainstream media printed many things that would be unacceptable today. (Jon Stewart had a good bit about this a long time ago.) Not to mention the total war involving multiple continents that happened a couple times in the last century... Not to say we should think that stuff will never happen again. It absolutely could. But depending on your viewpoint we’ve always been on the brink of collapse, or on the brink of greatness, etc. ----- Also, I don't believe that reading or watching news counts as "paying attention", especially if you're not in the position to take any action as a result (i.e. you don't work in politics, policy, etc.). It's generally a very passive activity. The time would be better spent observing what's going on in your town/city rather than "the world". Or even just doing something constructive in your area of expertise, e.g. writing free software, etc.
  - nostrademons 7y ago
    Standards are higher now. We're more aware of more potential emotional triggers. I've observed that with the Internet increasing our potential access to information by > 1000x, the adaptive emotional response to any given piece of information needs to be toned down by a factor of 1000x to maintain emotional stability. Wouldn't make me very popular at parties to say that the proper emotional response to kids getting murdered at a festival is to shrug your shoulders and say "By the numbers, your odds of getting killed in a mass shooting are still one in a million, which is less than when we were kids", but that's both a true and a rational statement to make.
    - asdff 7y ago
      Personally, I find it a little grotesque how many people share in these poor parent's horrifying tragedy. So much airtime and public eyes watching the absolute worst day of your life as a parent on national television and all over the internet. It's pretty horrible all around yet uniquely American. What I think is worse is the contrast of how flippant people are with flu shots. We rightfully scorn anti-vaxxers, yet people aren't lining up to get their flu shot every year. 50000 people died from the flu in the U.S. alone last year. That's sixteen 9/11s, and almost as many U.S. soldiers were killed in action in the entire Vietnam war. In one flu season. There's nothing political about the flu, nothing to be outraged about (except if you are me), no votes or money to be made by people reading and sharing it's coverage, and therefore it is buried into the footnotes far below the more profitable ad spend. Another statistic, but something that everyone could actually do something about if they walked into a CVS and got their fucking free shot.

nness 7y ago

This comment couldn't be more counter-productive. The article makes it clear that a feeling of anxiety at certain times is completely normal; it is when that anxiety is affects your daily life, causing you distress, or leads to depression or harm should it be concidered an anxiety disorder. The article notes that men can react to or present with anxiety differently; and that representation is ignored, leading to a reduction in their quality of life. Dimissing it, as you have, is exactly what prevents men from receiving mental health support and society, at large, from recognising mental health issues in men.

nickjj 7y ago
> ...it is when that anxiety is affects your daily life, causing you distress, or leads to depression or harm should it be concidered an anxiety disorder. But what if your lifestyle is the cause of that anxiety / depression? I think that's what the commenter was trying to say. Imagine working long hours in a job you hate to barely live pay check to pay check, and on top of that you're in a poor relationship. Every minute of every day is worrying about paying your next bill. You have no savings and are in debt. You haven't been on vacation in 15+ years and every time you enter your apartment, it's uncomfortable because you either fight with your partner or you ignore each other, but you stay together because you can't afford to live on your own. On top of that your diet is garbage because poor nutritional foods are usually cheaper than healthy foods unless you're a master cook, but who has the time or energy for that with the above life style. The above is pretty common for a lot of people. Maybe not everything happens to everyone at once, but all it takes is to be in a shitty work situation for little pay (very common) and that's enough to train your brain into thinking life is an un-escapable torture chamber. You'd have to be crazy not to always be on edge and depressed if that was your life day in and day out. Fortunately I'm not talking from personal experience from all of the above but I do like psychology and a number of respectful psychologists are in agreement that you can get in a very bad mental state from your life style and a lot of people have made drastic mental health improvements by removing the things that cause them daily stress.
pizza 7y ago
The GP's comment merely says that your environment can have a huge detrimental impact on your mental health. In no way is that dismissive of seeking help. They even applaud the use of the 'normal' tools. In fact, the scenario that you describe of a person exhibiting symptoms of anxiety disorder because every day is distressing is pretty much exactly the same scenario the GP is saying about a life-setup that is causing you harm.

TravHatesMe 7y ago

Well said! I frequently have anxious feelings in my day-to-day life. If I were to share that with my peers I think they might be surprised to hear it because I come across as solid, well-grounded person. I have learned to deal with these feelings. I have learned to deal with difficult situations -- but some times I can't and I fumble. That's OK. I wonder, at what point does such anxiety justify medication? Is there a measurable way of defining this disorder? (forgive my ignorance, I am genuinely curious). There are certainly cases where anxiety is clearly a disorder, but without a doubt it there are many cases where it is used as an excuse or a defensive mechanism, to avoid difficult situations or avoid one's own inadequacies. This kind of behavior is not good. They will refuse to challenge themselves by clutching to their excuse.

llamataboot 7y ago

First off, sometimes life circumstances are not changeable. Second off, any therapist worth anything will help you figure out what changes you could make in your life that would help your mental health. Third off, getting relief from some severity of symptoms, through any means, does not keep one from using the information in those symptoms.

awinder 7y ago

Life isn’t static either. Stress levels are normally peaking in late 20s/early 30s and then gradually declining until I think 70s? Anyways, yeah make moves to make your life better, but generally speaking good luck to you all on the field of battle in the middle years ;-).

deleted 7y ago

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deleted 7y ago

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