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Per your circumstances (living in Boston, already possess a car, drive occasionally), a new Tesla purchase might be non-ideal even besides the charging issue, f

Per your circumstances (living in Boston, already possess a car, drive occasionally), a new Tesla purchase might be non-ideal even besides the charging issue, from a climate standpoint. There is a breakeven point where your cumulative carbon savings from using Boston electricity (i.e. mostly natural gas) versus gasoline intersect the one-time carbon emissions from manufacturing a new automobile. For folks who already own a car they don't drive much, the breakeven may be very far away, meaning that a new Tesla purchase may actually be a net negative from a carbon standpoint.

thehappypm 7y ago
I was getting a new car either way, replacing one that had broken.
- xenocyon 7y ago
  Ah, that definitely changes the calculation completely.
  - thehappypm 7y ago
    If it makes you feel better, my new car gets 10 more MPG than my old one :)
hwillis 7y ago
No, electric vehicles are the best option in nearly all cases. Natural gas makes Boston electricity one of the cleaner grids in the country. For my zip, a LR Model 3 makes 131 MPG[1] per unit of CO2, while manufacturing produces ~5 tonnes more CO2 (an SR will be ~3.5 tonnes)[2]. That's a break even period of only 15,000 miles. Unless your gas car will be tossed away in under 15,000 miles you are adding more CO2 to the air- and that's assuming you actually make 29 mpg, which is not likely on a car that is only 15k miles from EOL. Even if you don't touch the car for years, if you eventually sell the car the next owners are practically guaranteed to drive that many miles. The average American drives that far in 13 months. Of course the money you spend on a new electric car might be better spent elsewhere, but in any state with a moderately clean grid, replacing a gas car with an electric car is a clear winning choice. Even on the very dirtiest grids in the US a Model 3 produces half as much CO2 as a gas car making 30 mpg- even slightly less than a Prius. The payback time is still only ~30k-35k miles, and in all likelihood owners will put several times that on the car. [1]: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-emissions-tool#z/02140/2018/Tesla/Model%203%20Long%20Range https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-e... [2]: https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cl...
- xenocyon 7y ago
  That's interesting. The last time I did the math it looked like the breakeven point would be well over a decade for me (approx 4000 driven miles per year). It may be that things have changed since.
  - hwillis 7y ago
    You can also just buy a used EV. If it has more than 40-60k miles, has already paid itself off. Completely, not just the extra cost of manufacturing.
  - wutbrodo 7y ago
    Another often-missed factor that may shift the ethical breakeven point is that local air pollution is _really_ bad from a public health perspective, to a degree that's criminally underemphasized. If you're going to be burning fossil fuels for power, doing so in a centralized place away from dense populations makes a lot more sense than doing so next to schools, parks, residential density, etc.
  - thehappypm 7y ago
    Another fun fact is that, in my lifetime, Massachusetts will be a very green-energy grid. We are building a transmission line through Maine to connect to a Quebec hydro plant, and offshore wind is growing fast (though it all takes time). A Tesla I buy today will probably be carbon-free in its lifetime!
  - acchow 7y ago
    4000 miles per year is much lower than the US average of 13k, or 12k km/year in the EU

thehappypm 7y ago

I was getting a new car either way, replacing one that had broken.

xenocyon 7y ago
Ah, that definitely changes the calculation completely.
- thehappypm 7y ago
  If it makes you feel better, my new car gets 10 more MPG than my old one :)

hwillis 7y ago

No, electric vehicles are the best option in nearly all cases. Natural gas makes Boston electricity one of the cleaner grids in the country. For my zip, a LR Model 3 makes 131 MPG[1] per unit of CO2, while manufacturing produces ~5 tonnes more CO2 (an SR will be ~3.5 tonnes)[2]. That's a break even period of only 15,000 miles. Unless your gas car will be tossed away in under 15,000 miles you are adding more CO2 to the air- and that's assuming you actually make 29 mpg, which is not likely on a car that is only 15k miles from EOL. Even if you don't touch the car for years, if you eventually sell the car the next owners are practically guaranteed to drive that many miles. The average American drives that far in 13 months. Of course the money you spend on a new electric car might be better spent elsewhere, but in any state with a moderately clean grid, replacing a gas car with an electric car is a clear winning choice. Even on the very dirtiest grids in the US a Model 3 produces half as much CO2 as a gas car making 30 mpg- even slightly less than a Prius. The payback time is still only ~30k-35k miles, and in all likelihood owners will put several times that on the car. [1]: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-emissions-tool#z/02140/2018/Tesla/Model%203%20Long%20Range https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-e... [2]: https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cl...

xenocyon 7y ago
That's interesting. The last time I did the math it looked like the breakeven point would be well over a decade for me (approx 4000 driven miles per year). It may be that things have changed since.
- hwillis 7y ago
  You can also just buy a used EV. If it has more than 40-60k miles, has already paid itself off. Completely, not just the extra cost of manufacturing.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  Another often-missed factor that may shift the ethical breakeven point is that local air pollution is _really_ bad from a public health perspective, to a degree that's criminally underemphasized. If you're going to be burning fossil fuels for power, doing so in a centralized place away from dense populations makes a lot more sense than doing so next to schools, parks, residential density, etc.
- thehappypm 7y ago
  Another fun fact is that, in my lifetime, Massachusetts will be a very green-energy grid. We are building a transmission line through Maine to connect to a Quebec hydro plant, and offshore wind is growing fast (though it all takes time). A Tesla I buy today will probably be carbon-free in its lifetime!
- acchow 7y ago
  4000 miles per year is much lower than the US average of 13k, or 12k km/year in the EU