5 ms·

Ask HN: How to help Hong Kong

13 points by adamnemecek 7y ago

I'm pretty livid about the situation in Hong Kong. I would love to help but I'm not sure how. Would organizing protests at the Chinese embassies in the US & Europe help? It would make most sense to coordinate with people in Hong Kong for maximum impact. Does anyone know someone who might be close to the organizers in Hong Kong?

notahacker 7y ago
I suspect that however well informed and intentioned, protests organized by Americans in America would be unhelpful, since the Chinese angle is that the protests are driven by US attempts to destabilise them rather than by the Hong Kong public being concerned about threats to their civil rights
- adamnemecek 7y ago
  OK why are there so many Hong Kongers protesting. You can't be silent on this issue. OK so I'm not supposed to do anything because China might spin it?
  - meiraleal 7y ago
    You can help your own local/national issues. I'm sure there are a lot of people struggle against bad policies where you are from, too.
    - adamnemecek 7y ago
      If you don't have an answer, please don't answer.
      - CapricornNoble 7y ago
        John Rambo: "Are you bringing any weapons?" Burnett: "No of course not." John Rambo: "Then you're not changing anything."[1] That is an answer. Everyone has a finite amount of time available to them. Trying to influence the Hong Kong situation from overseas may very well be a net-negative (the aforementioned exploitable "Westerners fomenting civil unrest" angle), or a net-neutral effect at best (assuming China just ignores all the gweilo[2] making noise and everyone proceeds under their own agency to resolve their internal problems). In either of those possible cases, you can maximize your contribution to global well-being by....focusing on a problem elsewhere, likely one closer to home. [1]https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/john_rambo/quotes/ https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/john_rambo/quotes/ [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo
        adamnemecek 7y ago
        Pls go away.
      - meiraleal 7y ago
        I have an answer. If you don't like it, don't ask for it. You help more Hong Kong not meddling a situation that doesn't concern you. As an example, the "arab spring" did no good to no arab country/population and a lot of people "helped" that to happen. Which brought us ISIS, a problem for all the world. Not help something like that happen again is a great help to Hong Kong.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        adamnemecek 7y ago
        You don't have an answer. How are you so confident about your shitposts?
- chr1 7y ago
  Would it be useful to protest about Xinjiang instead? After all if unsuccessful many of the protesters may end up in the same kind of reeducation camps.
znpy 7y ago
Probably running a tor relay or exit node. I guess they'll need a way to access the outside world when things get really messy -- if they haven't yet. Or you could do the unwise thing and go there and just walk around. When you'll get beaten up because the chinese government is letting the local mob go and beat random people, that should make a case. Maybe journalists could pick that up.
- adamnemecek 7y ago
  I'm talking about Chinese embassies in Europe and US. These are relatively safe targets of protests.
- CapricornNoble 7y ago
  >>>"Or you could do the unwise thing and go there and just walk around." I would really discourage that. There are strong signs that the People's Armed Police might intervene (they are already staging/exercising in Shenzhen). It could turn into another Tienanmen Square situation. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-12/global-times-shows-dramatic-video-chinese-army-preparing-hong-kong-invasion https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-12/global-times-shows...
dragonsh 7y ago
If you are livid about situation in Hong Kong, try to launch an education campaign in Hong Kong to not accept living in prison size cell apartment and pay astronomical prices for it. This results in staying hostage to developers for life and then blame someone for falling standards of living. Ask people in HK to study and spend more money on science and innovation not on property speculation and get rich quick scheme. Singapore learning from Hong Kong in early years already surpassed it by miles by doing just that focusing on basic health, education and house and avoid letting it's people stay hostage to rich billionaires. Protests are just symptoms of that simmering discontent with underlying house, education and healthcare problems. This cannot be resolved by relying on old ways in which Hong Kong got rich due to closed mainland China.
- adamnemecek 7y ago
  I'm more interested in direct actions.
  - dragonsh 7y ago
    This is direct action don't need any intermediary. You can just start by launching a good website explaining these 3 fundamental issues of house, education and health. People conflate this issues with unnecessary issues to vent their anger, you would have helped such people to see clearly with your content.
    - adamnemecek 7y ago
      Pls go ahead away.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
auganov 7y ago
The big thing is getting coverage. Especially coverage that isn't just matter-of-fact style reporting. If you can help with the press this is always a high-impact activity.
joelx 7y ago
I think we will see a Tiananmen Square style end to this protest soon. Technology has put too much power in the hands of a few unscrupulous dictators. I think we will see even Western countries fall this time around.
throwaway_2047 7y ago
I'm a Hongkonger. You are already helping by asking here on HN. Keep raising the awareness. Make sure people know the proximate and root cause of the protest. People needs to know Hong Kong is not China. People need to know the violence exerted by the police force. People need to know we are the most peaceful protestors in the world. And all conflicts, literally all, are elicited not by the protestors, but by the police. There are so much more people need to know
- meiraleal 7y ago
  > People needs to know Hong Kong is not China. Hong Kong is not China the same way Hawaii is not US (hint: they both are).
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Maybe Fiji or Puerto Rico would be better examples?
    - meiraleal 7y ago
      I thought the same after replying, but I think Hawaii is still a good example, as China treats Hong Kong the same way US treats Hawaii: as an inalienable part of itself.
  - hker 7y ago
    Hawaii–US is not a fair comparison to Hong Kong–China, because Hong Kong has its own currency, jurisdiction, legislative system, independent free press, slightly different languages (traditional vs simplified Chinese, Cantonese vs Mandarin), free access to the Internet.
dsjfalsdkj 7y ago
Help them buy goggles and stuff.
hker 7y ago
Some concrete actions that could help Hong Kong: 1. For governments worldwide: 1a. Freeze the assets of senior officials of the Chinese and Hong Kong governments who violated human rights, in the style of Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019. 1b. Stop exporting crowd-control equipment to Hong Kong which could be used by the Police Force. 2. For citizens worldwide: 2a. Urge your governments to do the above. 2b. Stop collaborating with China in the research and development of surveillance technology, which is being used also in Xinjiang. 2c. Purchase goods and services not from Chinese sources.

13 points by adamnemecek 7y ago

notahacker 7y ago

I suspect that however well informed and intentioned, protests organized by Americans in America would be unhelpful, since the Chinese angle is that the protests are driven by US attempts to destabilise them rather than by the Hong Kong public being concerned about threats to their civil rights

adamnemecek 7y ago
OK why are there so many Hong Kongers protesting. You can't be silent on this issue. OK so I'm not supposed to do anything because China might spin it?
- meiraleal 7y ago
  You can help your own local/national issues. I'm sure there are a lot of people struggle against bad policies where you are from, too.
  - adamnemecek 7y ago
    If you don't have an answer, please don't answer.
    - CapricornNoble 7y ago
      John Rambo: "Are you bringing any weapons?" Burnett: "No of course not." John Rambo: "Then you're not changing anything."[1] That is an answer. Everyone has a finite amount of time available to them. Trying to influence the Hong Kong situation from overseas may very well be a net-negative (the aforementioned exploitable "Westerners fomenting civil unrest" angle), or a net-neutral effect at best (assuming China just ignores all the gweilo[2] making noise and everyone proceeds under their own agency to resolve their internal problems). In either of those possible cases, you can maximize your contribution to global well-being by....focusing on a problem elsewhere, likely one closer to home. [1]https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/john_rambo/quotes/ https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/john_rambo/quotes/ [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo
      - adamnemecek 7y ago
        Pls go away.
    - meiraleal 7y ago
      I have an answer. If you don't like it, don't ask for it. You help more Hong Kong not meddling a situation that doesn't concern you. As an example, the "arab spring" did no good to no arab country/population and a lot of people "helped" that to happen. Which brought us ISIS, a problem for all the world. Not help something like that happen again is a great help to Hong Kong.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - adamnemecek 7y ago
        You don't have an answer. How are you so confident about your shitposts?
chr1 7y ago
Would it be useful to protest about Xinjiang instead? After all if unsuccessful many of the protesters may end up in the same kind of reeducation camps.

znpy 7y ago

Probably running a tor relay or exit node. I guess they'll need a way to access the outside world when things get really messy -- if they haven't yet. Or you could do the unwise thing and go there and just walk around. When you'll get beaten up because the chinese government is letting the local mob go and beat random people, that should make a case. Maybe journalists could pick that up.

adamnemecek 7y ago
I'm talking about Chinese embassies in Europe and US. These are relatively safe targets of protests.
CapricornNoble 7y ago
>>>"Or you could do the unwise thing and go there and just walk around." I would really discourage that. There are strong signs that the People's Armed Police might intervene (they are already staging/exercising in Shenzhen). It could turn into another Tienanmen Square situation. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-12/global-times-shows-dramatic-video-chinese-army-preparing-hong-kong-invasion https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-12/global-times-shows...

dragonsh 7y ago

If you are livid about situation in Hong Kong, try to launch an education campaign in Hong Kong to not accept living in prison size cell apartment and pay astronomical prices for it. This results in staying hostage to developers for life and then blame someone for falling standards of living. Ask people in HK to study and spend more money on science and innovation not on property speculation and get rich quick scheme. Singapore learning from Hong Kong in early years already surpassed it by miles by doing just that focusing on basic health, education and house and avoid letting it's people stay hostage to rich billionaires. Protests are just symptoms of that simmering discontent with underlying house, education and healthcare problems. This cannot be resolved by relying on old ways in which Hong Kong got rich due to closed mainland China.

adamnemecek 7y ago
I'm more interested in direct actions.
- dragonsh 7y ago
  This is direct action don't need any intermediary. You can just start by launching a good website explaining these 3 fundamental issues of house, education and health. People conflate this issues with unnecessary issues to vent their anger, you would have helped such people to see clearly with your content.
  - adamnemecek 7y ago
    Pls go ahead away.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

auganov 7y ago

The big thing is getting coverage. Especially coverage that isn't just matter-of-fact style reporting. If you can help with the press this is always a high-impact activity.

joelx 7y ago

I think we will see a Tiananmen Square style end to this protest soon. Technology has put too much power in the hands of a few unscrupulous dictators. I think we will see even Western countries fall this time around.

throwaway_2047 7y ago

I'm a Hongkonger. You are already helping by asking here on HN. Keep raising the awareness. Make sure people know the proximate and root cause of the protest. People needs to know Hong Kong is not China. People need to know the violence exerted by the police force. People need to know we are the most peaceful protestors in the world. And all conflicts, literally all, are elicited not by the protestors, but by the police. There are so much more people need to know

meiraleal 7y ago
> People needs to know Hong Kong is not China. Hong Kong is not China the same way Hawaii is not US (hint: they both are).
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Maybe Fiji or Puerto Rico would be better examples?
  - meiraleal 7y ago
    I thought the same after replying, but I think Hawaii is still a good example, as China treats Hong Kong the same way US treats Hawaii: as an inalienable part of itself.
- hker 7y ago
  Hawaii–US is not a fair comparison to Hong Kong–China, because Hong Kong has its own currency, jurisdiction, legislative system, independent free press, slightly different languages (traditional vs simplified Chinese, Cantonese vs Mandarin), free access to the Internet.

dsjfalsdkj 7y ago

Help them buy goggles and stuff.

hker 7y ago

Some concrete actions that could help Hong Kong: 1. For governments worldwide: 1a. Freeze the assets of senior officials of the Chinese and Hong Kong governments who violated human rights, in the style of Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019. 1b. Stop exporting crowd-control equipment to Hong Kong which could be used by the Police Force. 2. For citizens worldwide: 2a. Urge your governments to do the above. 2b. Stop collaborating with China in the research and development of surveillance technology, which is being used also in Xinjiang. 2c. Purchase goods and services not from Chinese sources.