3 ms·

I think that loot boxes should be subject to the same laws as slot machines in the US (since they are online slot machines, right?). If your state doesn't allo

by lunias 7y ago

I think that loot boxes should be subject to the same laws as slot machines in the US (since they are online slot machines, right?). If your state doesn't allow slot machines and online gambling then no loot boxes for you. If it does, you must also be 18 / 21 to purchase a loot box; depending on state law. What's the loophole currently being exploited that prevents loot boxes from being classified as online slot machines?

fucking_tragedy 7y ago
> What's the loophole currently being exploited that prevents loot boxes from being classified as online slot machines? Prosecutors' reluctance to make a case and uphold existing laws.
rtkwe 7y ago
Many games lack a way to convert from in game items to real world money so I can see where existing gambling things wouldn't apply, eg only a few games have a market setup where you can buy and sell items for real money like TF2. Some even completely lack trading so there's not a way to get money for them period.
- pas 7y ago
  But keys cost real money. And people want bragging rights, not money.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    Yes but without the conversion to real money on the back end it doesn't fit perfectly into existing regulations. It's also partially that they've just not really been on the radar in a big way until the past couple years. I'm not saying why they shouldn't I'm saying why they haven't so far.
WorldMaker 7y ago
This is also a deep hint to a potential worst case outcome of loot boxes. Pinball machines experienced a prohibition because of their similarity to slot machines. States that do not allow slot machines stopped allowing pinball machines. Eventually those states started to relax the prohibition based on whether or not pinball machine scoring systems could be determined by player skill and whether or not pinball machines produced payouts/rewards/prizes. But they started by banning all pinball machines, and bankrupted a number of companies in the industry. Videogames should have been a lot more careful to avoid this situation in the first place. It's not like the pinball prohibition was that long ago (New York was the last state to stop prohibiting pinball machines in 1976), nor that it was that far from home because it impacted laws on early arcades where videogames got their start (literally right next to pinball machines, and sometimes by the same manufacturers). It probably is a stretch for states to simply ban all videogames in 2019, but that sort of reaction is certainly possible in the right climate, and it has happened before.
- lunias 7y ago
  Interesting... I can see video games getting banned on the basis of addiction, but not specifically because of the loot box mechanic; since it can be removed. Pinball on the other hand would have had to become free? I just hope that once someone starts enforcing our existing laws that video game companies will abandon this idea since the access and implementation to the boxes would be different based on the user's physical location.
  - WorldMaker 7y ago
    That was the argument for pinball prohibition starting by just outright banning all pinball machines rather than sort them into categories: they were hugely addictive. The loot box mechanic draws the public scrutiny of the comparison to slot machines, but that worst case is that the scrutiny continues on to find the entire category too addictive. (Which is exactly the progression pinball prohibition took: at the time there were an increasing number of pinball machines which we might call today more "pachinko-like" / "plinko-like" that initially grew the ire of politicians and family groups, but after evaluation they started to feel all versions of pinball were addicting and needed to be managed.)

by lunias 7y ago

fucking_tragedy 7y ago

> What's the loophole currently being exploited that prevents loot boxes from being classified as online slot machines? Prosecutors' reluctance to make a case and uphold existing laws.

rtkwe 7y ago

Many games lack a way to convert from in game items to real world money so I can see where existing gambling things wouldn't apply, eg only a few games have a market setup where you can buy and sell items for real money like TF2. Some even completely lack trading so there's not a way to get money for them period.

pas 7y ago
But keys cost real money. And people want bragging rights, not money.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Yes but without the conversion to real money on the back end it doesn't fit perfectly into existing regulations. It's also partially that they've just not really been on the radar in a big way until the past couple years. I'm not saying why they shouldn't I'm saying why they haven't so far.

WorldMaker 7y ago

This is also a deep hint to a potential worst case outcome of loot boxes. Pinball machines experienced a prohibition because of their similarity to slot machines. States that do not allow slot machines stopped allowing pinball machines. Eventually those states started to relax the prohibition based on whether or not pinball machine scoring systems could be determined by player skill and whether or not pinball machines produced payouts/rewards/prizes. But they started by banning all pinball machines, and bankrupted a number of companies in the industry. Videogames should have been a lot more careful to avoid this situation in the first place. It's not like the pinball prohibition was that long ago (New York was the last state to stop prohibiting pinball machines in 1976), nor that it was that far from home because it impacted laws on early arcades where videogames got their start (literally right next to pinball machines, and sometimes by the same manufacturers). It probably is a stretch for states to simply ban all videogames in 2019, but that sort of reaction is certainly possible in the right climate, and it has happened before.

lunias 7y ago
Interesting... I can see video games getting banned on the basis of addiction, but not specifically because of the loot box mechanic; since it can be removed. Pinball on the other hand would have had to become free? I just hope that once someone starts enforcing our existing laws that video game companies will abandon this idea since the access and implementation to the boxes would be different based on the user's physical location.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  That was the argument for pinball prohibition starting by just outright banning all pinball machines rather than sort them into categories: they were hugely addictive. The loot box mechanic draws the public scrutiny of the comparison to slot machines, but that worst case is that the scrutiny continues on to find the entire category too addictive. (Which is exactly the progression pinball prohibition took: at the time there were an increasing number of pinball machines which we might call today more "pachinko-like" / "plinko-like" that initially grew the ire of politicians and family groups, but after evaluation they started to feel all versions of pinball were addicting and needed to be managed.)