6 ms·

>can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? It takes me less than 2 minutes to fill up my tank and pay, now you want me to sit 1-4 hours

>can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? It takes me less than 2 minutes to fill up my tank and pay, now you want me to sit 1-4 hours at a fast charger a week twiddling my thumbs? Never mind the fact a Tesla Model 3 starts at my annual salary.

ummonk 7y ago
I think it works if the fast charger is at e.g. a shopping center where you can grab dinner or shop while the car charges.
- neogodless 7y ago
  Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. In a world where a couple owns two EVs, and only one does the weekly grocery shopping, do they have to swap cars to get them both charged? Do they have to start eating out to charge their car? What if you use Amazon Fresh for food deliveries? Give that up; you need to charge your car. In other words, there are lots of ideas that might work for some people, but they shouldn't be necessary for EV ownership.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I think your point hits to the heart of it for many people's situations. You can fit car-charging into your routine if you make some very specific changes to your routine to accommodate it, and you must make possibly several hours of time for those changes every X days, or else you'll have a car with a flat battery and no quick fix that will let you complete your regular car-requiring errands. If that errand is "go grocery shopping" or "drop a large package off at the post office", you might be fine rearranging or postponing, but if it's "go to work", you're completely screwed. There are quite a few jobs where "I can't get to work because my car's battery is dead" will get you fired. For me, I'm privileged enough that it's simply inconvenient to put that constraint on my lifestyle (inconvenient enough that I won't buy an EV), but for many people it's a showstopper.
    - zip1234 7y ago
      What if workplaces add chargers as a benefit? I've seen several do it near me. People then just plug their car in at work.
      - neogodless 7y ago
        > Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. Remember when we coupled health insurance to employment? (Also, what if I want to retire next month, but I still drive an EV? Now I'm stuck spending hours of my retirement waiting for my car to charge somewhere? First world problem, I know...) These ideas are OK for a few people. But then wealthy people with wealthy employers are perhaps less likely to be "garage orphans" to begin with.
        zip1234 7y ago
        I agree that it is not a silver bullet. However it does account for a large portion of car down time and would be a useful place for chargers. Maybe it would work if they were pay chargers as well?
      - erik_seaberg 7y ago
        They have a few at work, but people complain about nobody vacating them promptly. With no guarantee that I would reliably have one every day, I'm not sure I see the point, I would always have to be prepared to get home without it.
        ummonk 7y ago
        At my company they do EV valet for the chargers. But it's a big company full of crazy perks.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  I'm at the grocery less than 10 minutes from the time I park my car til the time I start my car to leave. Aside from Church, work and my gyms (good luck getting a CF affiliate that barely keeps his doors open to install EV chargers in the parking lot of the half of a warehouse he leases and I don't see a chain gym in a small strip small that barely has adequate parking adding them to encourage people to loiter longer) I don't particularly go anywhere other than my apartment. There are tons of us in this scenario that would have to go waste our free time sitting around at some business, running our cars for heating or air conditioning, while we charge one or more times a week. The only way you ever get more than a token percentage of homeowners to switch to EVs is make it where you pull up to a building, a robot arm removes your batteries, slides new ones in, and you pull away 30 seconds later. I know 1 person that owns an EV, he has a Tesla. Everyone made fun of him when he bought it, and still does months later. It looks like Tesla has two locations in all of Indianapolis with 8 super chargers at one and 12 at the other. 2 locations for 361 square miles. The only place he goes regularly where he can charge it is his attached garage where he had a charger installed. I've only seen a few random business with a few generic (non fast-charging) charging stations around Indy with the exception of the EV smart-car looking cars in some of the hipster neighborhoods that you pay a monthly fee to use and have to return them to a handful of charging locations.
kennywinker 7y ago
Not sitting twidding your thumbs. If they are near somewhere you want to be recreationally, you’re set. The gym, the grocery store, the movies, a hiking trail, spending 1-4 hours at one of these once a week would likely enhance your life not take away from it.
- chc 7y ago
  If your solution to the difficulty of finding an EV charger is "put EV chargers literally everywhere," that would hypothetically solve the problem, but how do you propose to make that happen? That's what the question here is.
  - zip1234 7y ago
    Somehow people figured out how to make gasoline fueling infrastructure, which is amazing in itself. Extracting fuel out of the ground, transporting to refinery, transporting to destination holes scattered nearly everywhere around the world and pumping refined fuel back in, and then pumping back out of the ground into little fuel tanks in cars for it to be burned. If someone described that to me as a plan for internal combustion I would not believe them. With EVs, we actually have the delivery mechanism for fuel already mostly figured out.
    - chc 7y ago
      I know, it's amazing how it seems like it should be a relatively simple problem to solve, and yet it remains unsolved in real life. Hence my question: How do you propose to make that happen?
      - esotericn 7y ago
        Time. We've had less than seven years of a legitimately usable EV even existing. Seven years.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - 7y ago
fdjlasdfjl 7y ago
Ah yes, the mandatory electric car. That's totally something that is in the article and is also going to happen.
claytoneast 7y ago
Why is a fast charger 1-4 hours a week? You can do an 80% charge in a Tesla Model 3 in 24 minutes with the new generation of Superchargers, https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-minutes/ https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-m.... That will only improve in the coming years. 1-4 hours is not a valid charge time even now.

ummonk 7y ago

I think it works if the fast charger is at e.g. a shopping center where you can grab dinner or shop while the car charges.

neogodless 7y ago
Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. In a world where a couple owns two EVs, and only one does the weekly grocery shopping, do they have to swap cars to get them both charged? Do they have to start eating out to charge their car? What if you use Amazon Fresh for food deliveries? Give that up; you need to charge your car. In other words, there are lots of ideas that might work for some people, but they shouldn't be necessary for EV ownership.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I think your point hits to the heart of it for many people's situations. You can fit car-charging into your routine if you make some very specific changes to your routine to accommodate it, and you must make possibly several hours of time for those changes every X days, or else you'll have a car with a flat battery and no quick fix that will let you complete your regular car-requiring errands. If that errand is "go grocery shopping" or "drop a large package off at the post office", you might be fine rearranging or postponing, but if it's "go to work", you're completely screwed. There are quite a few jobs where "I can't get to work because my car's battery is dead" will get you fired. For me, I'm privileged enough that it's simply inconvenient to put that constraint on my lifestyle (inconvenient enough that I won't buy an EV), but for many people it's a showstopper.
  - zip1234 7y ago
    What if workplaces add chargers as a benefit? I've seen several do it near me. People then just plug their car in at work.
    - neogodless 7y ago
      > Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. Remember when we coupled health insurance to employment? (Also, what if I want to retire next month, but I still drive an EV? Now I'm stuck spending hours of my retirement waiting for my car to charge somewhere? First world problem, I know...) These ideas are OK for a few people. But then wealthy people with wealthy employers are perhaps less likely to be "garage orphans" to begin with.
      - zip1234 7y ago
        I agree that it is not a silver bullet. However it does account for a large portion of car down time and would be a useful place for chargers. Maybe it would work if they were pay chargers as well?
    - erik_seaberg 7y ago
      They have a few at work, but people complain about nobody vacating them promptly. With no guarantee that I would reliably have one every day, I'm not sure I see the point, I would always have to be prepared to get home without it.
      - ummonk 7y ago
        At my company they do EV valet for the chargers. But it's a big company full of crazy perks.
ryanmercer 7y ago
I'm at the grocery less than 10 minutes from the time I park my car til the time I start my car to leave. Aside from Church, work and my gyms (good luck getting a CF affiliate that barely keeps his doors open to install EV chargers in the parking lot of the half of a warehouse he leases and I don't see a chain gym in a small strip small that barely has adequate parking adding them to encourage people to loiter longer) I don't particularly go anywhere other than my apartment. There are tons of us in this scenario that would have to go waste our free time sitting around at some business, running our cars for heating or air conditioning, while we charge one or more times a week. The only way you ever get more than a token percentage of homeowners to switch to EVs is make it where you pull up to a building, a robot arm removes your batteries, slides new ones in, and you pull away 30 seconds later. I know 1 person that owns an EV, he has a Tesla. Everyone made fun of him when he bought it, and still does months later. It looks like Tesla has two locations in all of Indianapolis with 8 super chargers at one and 12 at the other. 2 locations for 361 square miles. The only place he goes regularly where he can charge it is his attached garage where he had a charger installed. I've only seen a few random business with a few generic (non fast-charging) charging stations around Indy with the exception of the EV smart-car looking cars in some of the hipster neighborhoods that you pay a monthly fee to use and have to return them to a handful of charging locations.

kennywinker 7y ago

Not sitting twidding your thumbs. If they are near somewhere you want to be recreationally, you’re set. The gym, the grocery store, the movies, a hiking trail, spending 1-4 hours at one of these once a week would likely enhance your life not take away from it.

chc 7y ago
If your solution to the difficulty of finding an EV charger is "put EV chargers literally everywhere," that would hypothetically solve the problem, but how do you propose to make that happen? That's what the question here is.
- zip1234 7y ago
  Somehow people figured out how to make gasoline fueling infrastructure, which is amazing in itself. Extracting fuel out of the ground, transporting to refinery, transporting to destination holes scattered nearly everywhere around the world and pumping refined fuel back in, and then pumping back out of the ground into little fuel tanks in cars for it to be burned. If someone described that to me as a plan for internal combustion I would not believe them. With EVs, we actually have the delivery mechanism for fuel already mostly figured out.
  - chc 7y ago
    I know, it's amazing how it seems like it should be a relatively simple problem to solve, and yet it remains unsolved in real life. Hence my question: How do you propose to make that happen?
    - esotericn 7y ago
      Time. We've had less than seven years of a legitimately usable EV even existing. Seven years.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- 7y ago

fdjlasdfjl 7y ago

Ah yes, the mandatory electric car. That's totally something that is in the article and is also going to happen.

claytoneast 7y ago

Why is a fast charger 1-4 hours a week? You can do an 80% charge in a Tesla Model 3 in 24 minutes with the new generation of Superchargers, https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-minutes/ https://electrek.co/2019/07/02/tesla-supercharger-v3-range-m.... That will only improve in the coming years. 1-4 hours is not a valid charge time even now.